Remember when you started to suffer? Recognize that it was when you became thoughtful?
Thought, Consciousness, Time, Awareness, Intellect, Suffering. There is no odd one out.
J Krishnamurti said: "Thought is time. ... Time is the psychological enemy of man."
But what is "man" without thought and awareness of time?
Again: "Whatever thought does it breeds misery, sorrow, conflict, and when thought realizes that, it will come to an end by itself, the vicious circle is broken; thought, which means time, has come to an end." (JK)
And he said: "Seeing all this, that thought is the result of memory, of collected experience which is very limited, ... and seeing that the pursuit of the future creates time; seeing all this, surely it is obvious that thought must be suspended." (JK, emphasis mine)
Right on!
The entire gamut of spiritual practices becomes transparent when you realize that the goal is to do away with thought.
I reached this realization 5 years back. Since I was incapable of doing that for a continued period of time, I gravitated towards actualism, which was even more radical in that it wanted to do away with the affective faculty altogether. Whereas spirituality revels in the bliss of the unexamined life, actualism revels in total examination.
"In my investigations into life, ... I first started by examining thought, thoughts and thinking ... then very soon moved on to examining feelings (first the emotions and then the deeper feelings). When I dug down into these passions and calentures (into the core of ‘my’ being then into ‘being’ itself)" (Richard, AFT Website)
Actualism appealed to my intellect, but I didn't realize then that if I was incapable of living as the spirit, I would be incapable of living as the senses too. The reason is the same for both inabilities: my awareness, my intellect is too strong to be submerged in either feelings or sensuality.
If ever Actualism becomes part of Hinduism (the all-embracing religion), it will surely be called Indriya Yoga (To Be One with the Senses, To BE the senses). Heh.
Spirituality is to live as feelings, Actualism is to live as the senses. For both, the only bliss worth its name is timeless bliss.
Time is the Enemy.
"I have no plans at all for the future." (Richard's Journal)
By now, it shouldn't come as a surprise.
(to be continued)
Tuesday, April 27, 2010
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If you like to have a look on my comment, I have one!.
//.........spiritual practices becomes transparent when you realize that the goal is to do away with thought. //
//.....The reason is the same for both inabilities: my awareness, my intellect is too strong to be submerged in either feelings or sensuality.//
"Do away with thought" does not mean there should not be any thought with in a human. Beaing a vivid reader and refering J krishnamurti here you must have gone thru' what is J Krishnamurti spoke on this subject of thought also. The thought mentioned by any spiritual system is the thought which support the psychological domain or the thought which support the "ego".
If you mean "intellect" as the ability to solve a logic with in our mind - with out even recognizing all the input for solving the logic with in our mind is avialable or not, then I am able to understand your inability.
When awareness is there, the intelligence does not work this way. The awareness includes the awareness of 'may not possessing' all the information required for the logic solver.
Same is the case with sensuality. When the awareness is strong, actually one can see an entirly different dimension of senses - the sensing thru' basic sense organs.
The thoughts may arise when one is submerging into sensuality. But if one has strong awareness, beaing aware of the thoguhts, will not be carried away by the thoughts and hence the experience of sensuality is still there and gets strong. Only the lack of awareness alows us being carried away by the thought and being distracted from the bliss of sensuality.
I would request you to have a relook on the term "awareness" indicated in your posting, if you like to do.
Thanks!
If ever Actualism becomes part of Hinduism (the all-embracing religion), it will surely be called Indriya Yoga (To Be One with the Senses, To BE the senses). Heh.
#Ha Harman, you sound very delighted and in glee coming up with a marriage of Both. Are you truly delighted now?
May i know what truly delights you, an intellectual now. Is there anything?
AA,
May i know what truly delights you, an intellectual now. Is there anything?
Comments such as yours. ;-)
But seriously, Delight happens at times, not all the time. It is not purely about the object. One's own mood plays a part. Sometimes one laughs at the slightest provocation, sometimes not. And that is perfectly alright with me now.
"Do away with thought" does not mean there should not be any thought with in a human. Beaing a vivid reader and refering J krishnamurti here you must have gone thru' what is J Krishnamurti spoke on this subject of thought also. The thought mentioned by any spiritual system is the thought which support the psychological domain or the thought which support the "ego".
No. The state of Samadhi is a thoughtless state.
No wonder about the way the recent postings are writen, when you have such a rigid and conrete idea.
Thanks!
Intellect and spirituality are 180 degree opposite to each other. Anyone with an inquisitive enough mind is bound to end up finding everything as meaningless.
I wish I could believe in God ;)
when you have such a rigid and concrete idea.
It is not my idea.
Yoga-scha-Citta Vritti Nirodha (Patanjali, 150 BC)
"The mind can never experience the new, and so the mind must be utterly still. The mind can be still only when it is not experiencing, that is, when it is not terming or naming, recording or storing up in memory." (JK)
"It is only when the thought process ceases, when the mind is literally and utterly still - and stillness can come about only through self-knowledge - , that reality is understood; and it is the real that resolves our problems, not our cunning distractions and formulated escapes." (JK)
True, This is the mistake almost every reader of any philosphy put themselves with in.
This is not the only Pathanjali suthra. Pathanjali suthra contain 4 sections with each section having about 50 suthras (If I am right!) This is not the only words of "JK" He had spoken in length about thoughts.
If we take a section of whatever philosophy and bend it on our way, it can be taken to any direction - if that is the intention. These things must be seen as an integrated one, which are spoken to people of different background, mind set and understanding.
If you take a section in any philosophy, exactly opposite of that can be found with in the same philosophy. If we have not enough understanding that what we are reading is not just writen for us, but for the whole of the population, for sure you can find any number of conradictions in such philosophies (If it is addresed to every body and not for a selected group)
Thanks!
"I have no plans at all for the future." (Richard's Journal)
Richard also wrote:
"Nothing more needs to be done now, except to freely assist another person to actualise this vital break-through for themselves. When that person is also free they can similarly facilitate the freedom of another person ... and another ... and another ... and so on.
By operating in this manner, on a one-to-one basis, freedom from being an identity could spread throughout the entire population of this planet. A truly evolutionary change will have taken place; a mutation of human consciousness. The much longed-for golden age will have finally been ushered in … and by the peoples concerned."
(http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/selectedwriting/sw-evolution.htm)
The aim of spirituality is to become my own master. The state of thoughtlessness is a milestone signifying an achievement of being of able to control my mind as opposed to the mind (and hence my thoughts) controlling me.
There is no one way of achieving this aim, there could be numerous unexplored ways too. We can never know what we don't know because we work in the limited realm of our mind. The only way is to question and seek untiringly (which you too do so perseveringly).
Going by the principle of 'being your master', time may become your best friend if you wanted it to, or time may not have any significance at all. The same could stand true of thought, consciousness, awareness, intellect and suffering as we understand them at the moment.
As you have mentioned in your latest post on "Notes on Meaning" (part 7?) - as you explore more, the boundaries in your mind start fading away - between right and wrong, moral and immoral, truth and untruth, sacrosanct and profane, happiness and misery, rich and poor, grotesque and beautiful…
I don't know if that aim is 'real' or the 'truth'. I just see my boundaries fading away.
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