Thursday, September 27, 2007

Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev (continued)

As the second example, let us take the following question and its answer.

I will be annotating "Sadhguru's" reply since this is a long text and repeating it for annotating will make it too long. The question and Sadhguru's answer are in quotes and mine are prefixed by a "#" character.

"Q: If you would review your interview you may realize the overall 'feel good' nature of Sadhguru's responses. Appeal to one's logic and reason while diverting attention away from substantive issues. Thus Shiva becomes an embodiment of Universality, and not worshipped as part of the Hindu trinity. The Dhyanalinga (a representation of Shiva in the form of a phallus), the Sanskrit slokas, the bija mantras, invoking Sadhguru's presence by chanting the hymn to Lord Vasudevaya all these are non-religious!

Also note that Sadhguru glossed over the screening process. My conscience alone knows the dedication and fervor with which I pursued this path. I wish I had paid attention to what was happening around me I would have pulled out sooner. This response again is typical of a cult. The blame is always the individual and the person's lack of faith. My experience has shown that the process is geared towards enslaving a person's mind, and as such rises to the level of a cult. I give below some of the signs typical of a cult leader that I gleaned from the net:

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

4. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently, analyze situations, independent of the group/leader's involvement.

5. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supersede any personal goals or individual interests.

6. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

7. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

8. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

The crux of the organization is the offer of 'liberation'. This liberation is exemplified by altered states of consciousness brought on by sleep deprivation, meditation, constant chanting, yelling, screaming etc., I am now suspect of any group that requires that one suspend one's logic. Since this 'knowledge' is 'beyond' logic.

In any scientific study the results are open to scrutiny. The results ought to be both reliable and repeatable. A pharmaceutical company cannot claim that the randomness in the efficacy of their drug is due to the doubting nature and short attention span of the patients. But this is precisely what these organizations get away with. Could the Sadhguru tell us how many else became enlightened through his process besides himself. Why then the claim that the 'inner possibility' is as open to Shyam as it was to the Buddha or Sadhguru himself. With regard to the altered states of consciousness itself: it is not limited to Yoga or Hinduism - we can find it in the sects of Christian Pentacosts, Islamic Sufism, Dervishes, Sri Sri Sri Ravishankar etc., To lay out a process that brings about these states and then use it to convince people that they have found THE way is both disingenuous and duplicitous.

Do not be a follower, but be a prophet unto thy own. During my days in Isha there was this Jewish doctor who was sought by Sadhguru as well as a competitor to serve in their ashram. Sadhguru preaches about his yoga hospital in the ashram where people are treated in holistic methods. This doctor who visited the ashram reported that she was shocked to find that there was no such hospital in existence. We collectively reasoned this away by convincing ourselves that it is his intention to bring the yogic hospital to fruition in the future. Alas such is the power of mindless delusion! - Name withheld on request

A:

"Spiritual science is about inner well being. To create the inner well being we use every possible method that life allows. Modern science has proved that the whole existence is just a reverberation of energy."

# Such simplistic reductions of modern theories of (e.g.) quantum mechanics and general relativity is quite common by modern day charlatans such as the venerable Deepak Chopra. The trend was probably begun by the physicist Fritjof Kapra when he published his opus "The Tao of Physics". To get further insight into these antics, do refer to an article about Quantum Quackery.

"Where there is a vibration there is bound to be a sound. "

# Firstly he reduces the universe to "reverberation of energy" which is then equated with "vibration". Then he reduces "vibration" to "sound". Sound is the perception (e.g., by a human being) of a pressure wave traveling through a matter medium. Sound waves are completely distinct from electromagnetic waves, which are completely different from quantum mechanical waveforms and probability clouds.

"So the whole existence is seen as yoga of complex amalgamation of sound. What you call the cosmos is a complex web of sound called nadabrahma. In it are some key sounds."

# Certifiable bullshit. There is no sound at all in the pervasive vacuum which exists in space.

"These key sounds when applied to the right door can open a whole dimension for you."

# Presumably, the new dimension is the so-called extra sensory realm.

"This is how a mantra works. You cannot look at everything also from a religious perspective. The reason you do that is because of the culture you were brought up on and the tools that were used to create that inner well being in you. May be some religions have staked a claim on these mantras or these tools but that doesn’t make it religious."

# The questioner is probably questioning whether the label "secular" can be applied to the chanting of Sanskrit mantras praising Hindu deities. The "Sadhguru" is responding that the mantras are generic and are not tied to any particular religion. In fact bija mantras (or the key sounds) are quite specific aspects of Hindu theology. They hardly find any mention in the religions and cults outside India and its neighboring countries.

"In India we light a lamp in the evening. It may look like a religious ritual - before sunset light a lamp before God, but when there was no electricity then lighting a lamp was basic common sense, isn’t it?"

# Lighting a lamp is not a religious ritual, dear "Sadhguru", lighting a lamp in front of a deity is! Never was "common sense" so evident.

"So there is an elaborate science of mantras behind the process of using sounds for inner well being."

# There may well be. Music and chanting do effect one's mind, make it calm or agitated (depending upon the music). Music or mantra therapy to treat physical or psychological disorders is a stream of new age healing, just like Pranic healing, Reiki, crystal and gemstone therapy, and other such claptrap.

"Today people say music has a healing quality, cows are giving more milk , hens are laying more eggs and plants are thriving when certain music is played. Here you arrived at a certain healing or productive procedure through accident but in effect there is a whole elaborate science of mantras and how to use these sounds for inner as well as outer well being."

# It would be laughable were the spiritual promise of salvation to sick individuals via mantras not so pernicious.

"Just because someone says Vasudevayah does not make it my name. I would advice Mr. anonymous to look at IT closely and see what impact it has on the people rather than being focused on finding faults behind a hidden name. If he has some scientific background, I invite him to come with his instruments so I can show him that just by uttering the word vasudevayah what kind of activity it’ll create in the brain, because today we measure all these things scientifically."

# Vasudev is indeed Sadhguru's current name, the label by which his body is identified in this world. Vasudevayah is a reverential utterance for the God Vasudev. If this is indeed the bija mantra (the key chanting sound) being given to most of the seekers in his ashram, there is definitely something fishy.

"The Jewish doctor he is talking about had heart and other problems that prevented her from undertaking anything strenuous, or even flying. When she came here she was expecting a hospital with drips and sick patients lying in bed. When she didn’t see that she came and asked me where was the yogic temple and I told her look at the people around you-the ones in the kitchen, those mopping the floors-these are all sick people but we put them to work. Seventy percent of all illnesses are self created. Today that doctor is still with us and she walked about 60 kms with us in the Himalayas and she has talked about her experiences on a video."

# Ok. Fair enough. She got better after staying in an ashram. See the paragraph containing the reference to the Pragmatic Fallacy at the end.

"There are thousands of people who come and go from here and I’m sure some of them are disgruntled like this man because someone rubbed them the wrong way. There are no super human beings here These are people who are imperfect and are striving to grow. If they were perfect they would not need me or anyone else."

# Maybe the person is disgruntled, maybe not. But if every critic is to be labeled as a disgruntled one because someone who is not yet perfect might have rubbed him the wrong way (and not because the critic may be saying something sensible), where is the space for questioning the "Sadhguru"?

"I must say this man’s understanding of enlightenment seems very rudimentary, especially if he has to go to the internet and describe what is a cult. He couldn’t even come up with his own interpretation."

# There are various definitions of cult and cultist methods on the internet and before calling a community a cult, it is not a bad idea to see the prevailing standards of what is normally considered a cult (e.g. by the Rick Ross Institute). If the questioner had just called the community a cult without citing the reasons, he would have been doubly reprimanded.

"Now what is a cult? Today whatever is considered religion was called a cult yesterday. That is why when Jesus was alive he was called a cultist and crucified. Anyone who did not follow the established religion was punished. I guess people may want to do the same to me but today(laughter) the law doesn’t permit it. Frankly that cult was more meaningful than the existing religion right now because people experienced it then-today its only belief and this man’s interpretation of cult is also based on western interpretation."

# Jesus was indeed trying to form a community of followers with himself as a divine leader, which in today's terms would indeed be called a cult. There is no controversy about it. Why is the Sadhguru so antagonistic to admitting that his community is indeed a cult? Because it would deter future western spiritual tourists. His response to criticism that the labeling is done from a western interpretation is indeed correct. But then, he should be forthright in admitting that from a western interpretation, his community is indeed a cult. (Do note, however, that in between the Sadhguru also does the neat thing of comparing himself to Christ.)

"If he is so concerned, disappointed and disturbed then I invite him to come and do both the basic and the next course and rip it in front of me, and make me look like a fool if he can. He should have the courage to stop his fellow humans from suffering and I would like to know myself because I’m also concerned. If he is afraid he need not reveal his name but I invite him to come and demolish the program if he can show that it doesn’t work. Why is he letting such wrong things happen to others?"

# So a critic or a sceptic should come inside a cult or an alternative medicine hospital, be bombarded with questionable therapies, group brainwashing tactics, stay with an intellectually subjugated crowd of disciples, spend time doing the practices of the cult, and only then say that "it doesn't work." Right?

Wrong. "What works" is no proof of correctness. I hope some readers are familiar with the Pragmatic Fallacy.

"If he is just there to sit and criticize or find faults without proving it scientifically then we won’t waste our time with him."

# Who is this "we"? Me, the Messiah, and my disciples. The Sadhguru needs to be told that the onus of proof of a new theory or medicine or treatment or process of enlightenment is upon the inventor, not on the sceptics.

90 comments:

Anonymous said...

You may not like what I am going to say, but by posting the workings of you mind you are asking for it...

You need to decide if you are a seeker - someone seeking to know, whatever it is at the other end - or you are someone who just has to compulsively apply his 'thought process' on something you wish to hate.

If you are a seeker, please see you need to have the humility of asking 'can you tell me how?' The other person does not require your courtesy, you need to prepare yourself to look in an un-prejudiced manner.

Of course you think you are infallible, but please look at your own logic, do you think there is grounds to draw the conclusions tha t you have drawn???

Anonymous said...

You seem to sound as if you know everything.

"There are no sounds in vacuum", you don't hear it, so it does not exist?

People who think they are Wise, are OtherWise......

I see it now in reality!.

Anyways, I enjoyed reading your post, you gave a wonderful laugh portraying your stupidity.

Anonymous said...

Do not read just the ones you can find fault with, read the Q&A below, and see if it makes any sense at all,

Even if it does not make any sense at all do you, thats fine, I agree u r Dumb.

and no Hard feelings! :)
***
Dear Sadhguru, after my BhavaSpandana program, last month at the IIIS Center in Tennessee, I am not the same anymore. Now all I feel or sense is love and life around me and I want everyone else to realize what life is all about including my husband. I want everyone to look deep inside and change their way of living. When we have a guru like you, I know it’s possible. But people are not always willing to listen. What can I do to make people spiritual, especially the ones like my husband; he thinks that he has control over his mind and doesn’t need ISHA. Jayashree, NJ-USA

Do not go about preaching whatever you experienced in BSP. Just keep the experience alive within yourself and transformation around you will naturally happen. Everyone in the world need not come to the program. If one person does BSP, they must be able to transform the lives of 1000 people around them without uttering a word about it. So your husband is a good test for you to see how strong your BSP is since he is a man with a strong mind according to you.
***

PS: am not able to log into my account to make a comment under my name, if you wonder, am the same guy who "dissected" old post on Spirituality and D......

harmanjit said...

> "There are no sounds in vacuum", you don't hear it, so it does not exist?

# Yes, there is no sound in vacuum. If you are so confident that there is nadabrahma in vacuum, I will be most interested in an audio recording of it which is done in vacuum by a microphone and a frequency distribution if the frequencies are inaudible to humans.

Let me know once you have it.

Anonymous said...

So Harmanjit, have you decided whether you seek to know? or you just seeking to indulge in garbage-in-garbage-out? if you seek to know, are you willing to walk with the necessary grace and sincerity? We know you have the highest ideals, but I would like to see a super-smart guy like you make a simple and straight statement about it. It helps, you know.

(Yes, we'll send you the recording, but, first thing first, you know)

harmanjit said...

> So Harmanjit, have you decided whether you seek to know? or you just seeking to indulge in garbage-in-garbage-out? if you seek to know, are you willing to walk with the necessary grace and sincerity? We know you have the highest ideals, but I would like to see a super-smart guy like you make a simple and straight statement about it. It helps, you know.

# I will wait for either an acceptance of error or the recording of nadabrahma done in vacuum before I correspond any further about "grace" and "sincerity" et al.

N Sriram said...

harman, i hope you will not get distracted into debating whether there is 'sound' in a blackhole, etc.

I know that J Vasudev is a charlatan. My folks live in Coimbatore, I was born there and frequent it often, and have seen this man's rise. A fellow teacher in my school was a consultant to the Isha School there and found that it was in a terrible condition.

At a personal level I have a dilemma: I own some land near his ashram, by accident and not design. Its value is steeply appreciating since JV is becoming popular. Am not sure if I am doing the right thing by holding on to the land for still steeper appreciation because there will be more devotees flocking, some may want to buy my land. Am I not wishing for people to turn foolish since I think JV is a charlatan. Or since nobody can ever say that it is the JV factor that is propelling the value of my land, I need not bother and sell it to anyone who comes along when I want to sell it?

Anonymous said...

How did the Sadhguru figure out that the questioner is a "He" ?
This group seems to be growing in leaps and bounds in a short span of 6 years in the U.S. Many a family has willingly given up themselves and even their children towards this "cause". Amazing thing is that they seem to fly just under the radar and are not reviewed objectively in any of the usual websites like Rickross etc.,
My sincere respects to Harmanjit for taking on a seemingly questionable movement and reviewing it in a professional manner.

N Sriram said...

Harman,

I was in Coimbatore on the day when J Vasudev was arrested for allegedly murdering his wife. He was relatively unknown then and only the local Tamil papers carried the news. We did read about it for a few days before its inevitable disappearance from even the inside pages. If someone could check archives of Tamil newspapers (Coimbatore edition) and get some info on the FIR through the RTI, it might throw some light on the mystery of how his wife could not come back from deep meditation.

Anonymous said...

N.Sriram:
You are the second person to bring up this issue of Sadhguru's arrest. The first was an acquaintance who met the arresting officer Selvam, who is currently dabbling with 'sciences' like Astrology etc., If I remember correctly the matter of the arrest was brought up by the interviewer in one of the discussions with Sadhguru. Of course, he managed to distract himself exceptionally from the situation.
How come in all these years it was only Harmanjit who seems to have made any effort to talk about the Sadhguru? Pretty much all the reviews about him (other than the interview) have nothing but praises for the man and his work. I understand he is establishing a multi million dollar ashram in Tennessee.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
harmanjit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Sriram,

Can you give details of this so-called arrest of Sadhguru? As far as I know, a cheap tabloid named Nakkeran started all this because of some misinformation by some vested interests. The investigations clearly said so. If you do not believe this open any issue of that magazine now and you'll find them serializing Sadhguru's articles on spirituality.

In fact sometime ago they issued a formal apology - something unheard of by the press, that too by a mag like Nakkeran. They said they have realized their folly and appreciated the work done by Sadhguru for the people of Tamil Nadu.

Quite a miracle if you knew how these things worked. But of course you won't consider them. That Selvam guy is a joker and was chucked out of the forces. Now he does all these astrology stuff.

You should be keeping better company.

N Sriram said...

Anonymous,

I know Nakkeeran well. It was not Nakkeeran that published the news of arrest. All Tamil papers having edition in Coimbatore - Dhina Thanthi, Dhina Mani, Malai Murasu - all published it. One of them carried lengthy response by JV.

Nakkeeran may be cosying up to 'sadhguru' for other reasons. It is a very strong DMK supporting mag (nothing wrong there). And the TN CM and his daughter Kanimozhi are fans of JV. Last month the CM presided over a function - second in 6 months - fecilitating JV and said things like how wished every guru was like JV. So Nakeeran cannot but be apolegetic about any adverse remarks it made against JV. Otherwise, the editor Gopal cannot hope to get a ticket for LS in the next election.

I, and my colleagues, do some work with people from JV's Isha Foundation on education projects. These are commercial projects and as are treated as such. Unless you are reasonably rich, you cannot send your child to the Isha School. No charity there (I have no issue on this). We also know where and how they acquire land in various cities in TN which is no different from the way property deals are done by people with political clout. I have nothing to do with the man or his wisdom. I keep excellent company, thanks.

N Sriram said...

Anonymous,

I dont read Nakkeeran so I dont know the JV serial there, but Ananda Vikatan, which is the most reputed weekly in Tamil, is serialising JV's autobiographical writings. I read it for fun and have not missed an issue.

Anonymous said...

Here is something from another blogging site about the Sadhguru. Seems to jive with what Sriram and others have mentioned here:

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/12/divinity_sells.html

"Hi Kavita:

Interesting post! I have gotten sick and tired of this "Spiritual Tourism" that goes on amongst the devotees and the money that the Gurus make!

regarding "Satguru" Jaggi.. I had an interesting anecdote. I have this Mallu friend - a christian who has been an ardent Rush Limbaugh fan - who got into this spiritual thing and has been devouring Gita etc... now he happened to attend one of Jaggi's retreat and wanted me to go too.. I was trying to set my own spiritual compass right those days (still am) and declined because I really am not looking for a Guru. He was convinced that he had met an Enlightened being!

Then one day I was at the airport when I met this Tamilian guy and we got talking on these matters after a while. he then said - i had a friend in Chennai (who would even visit his house and hang around) who used to be this Harley Davidson kinda guy talking spiritual stuff here and there.. now he has made it big... he even has a website - Ishayoga .com or something...

hmm I said.. did I hear that name before? :-)

This friend did say that there were rumors that Jaggi may have had a hand in the death of his wife... before he got the Guru "makeover" from the earlier HD biker avatar! Of course, now he has some big connections within the political circles in the south and so his empire has been growing by leaps and bounds there.

I am not sure what the truth is.. but those who say love is blind.. forget that even spirituality pursuits these days are blind too!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com"

Anonymous said...

To the man who writes this blog...
Uness you 'experience' a program, you cannot judge. The mind cannot judge. The mind is a great and useful servant, but a horrible master. Are you so afraid of your own fragility that you think you could be brainwashed by one program that is held in a public venue in major cities all over the world? And these programs are not expensive - for instance, $325 for a six day program that is 3 hours for four evenings, all day Saturday and Sunday with three delectable meals included. With venue rental and food, that is not much profit. And are you aware of the humanitarian work being done by Isha - the magnitude of it. Anyway, there is a spiritual concept that is all-important. This is the ability to surrender. Christ said it in many ways. You give over to a higher force. Your pea brain cannot figure some things out. The miracle of the universe is far beyond linear logic. If you had experienced the energy of Sadhguru, you would never be saying the things you are saying. Do you really think all of his 'disciples' are brainwashed? Practicing doctors, lawyers, teachers, successful executives who continue to live their lives and be followers of Sadhguru. You say you have 'seen' his followers. What does that mean. Can you know someone by just seeing them? I am sad for you. It appears that fear is running you. You can't know something by standing outside of it. I'm sorry you're too afraid to step inside and immerse yourself. You can give any excuse you want, but until you do this, you can't judge. Again, are you that afraid of your own weakness of character that you'll be swept away. It seems if you're willing to trash Sadhguru, it would be worth the money. I'm sure you could get donations! There are plenty of ex cult members who are 'deprogrammed' and tell the world their experience. Why is this not the case with Isha? Have you applied that concept to your logic?

harmanjit said...

"To the man who writes this blog...
Uness you 'experience' a program, you cannot judge."

Hi! I am not judging his programs (which according to my limited research are expensive feel-good retreats for the stressed out rich). I am judging the alleged wisdom of his advice and words.

"The mind cannot judge. The mind is a great and useful servant, but a horrible master."

May I ask, what faculty are you using to judge my article?

"Are you so afraid of your own fragility that you think you could be brainwashed by one program that is held in a public venue in major cities all over the world?"

No, but I am quite loath to "donate" my earnings to Sadhguru and I am quite disinclined to spend a few days amongst rapturous devotees in order to confirm that the Sadhguru's words are empty and his programs anything more than de-stressers.

"And these programs are not expensive - for instance, $325 for a six day program that is 3 hours for four evenings, all day Saturday and Sunday with three delectable meals included."

Thank you for the information.

"With venue rental and food, that is not much profit."

That may be true. However, then it is disingenuous to call it a "donation" when it is rather a fee for the program. A donation is always voluntary and the amount of a donation is upto the individual.

"And are you aware of the humanitarian work being done by Isha - the magnitude of it."

To a limited extent, yes, I do know. However, I am decidedly unimpressed when a master chooses to spend "donated" money on chariots, BMW motorcycles and the like. I am not at all concerned with the "good" work done by Isha as my primary concern is with the logic, truth and broad applicability of Sadhguru's methods to achieve freedom from suffering.

"Anyway, there is a spiritual concept that is all-important. This is the ability to surrender. Christ said it in many ways. You give over to a higher force."

Thanks for the clarification.

"Your pea brain cannot figure some things out."

I tend to agree with you. It can surely see charlatanism where it is apparent, however.

"The miracle of the universe is far beyond linear logic."

Huh? Would first order logic, or even fuzzy logic, do the trick?

"If you had experienced the energy of Sadhguru, you would never be saying the things you are saying. "

Ok. So if somebody is saying something negative about Sadhguru, it must be that he has "not experienced the energy". Sadhguru cannot be wrong, ever!!

"Do you really think all of his 'disciples' are brainwashed? "

To varying degrees, yes. To the extent that they are sceptical and non-surrendered, no.

"Practicing doctors, lawyers, teachers, successful executives who continue to live their lives and be followers of Sadhguru."

Ok.

"You say you have 'seen' his followers. What does that mean. Can you know someone by just seeing them?"

No, by talking to them, understanding their point of view and seeing how much sense they make.

"I am sad for you. It appears that fear is running you."

Ok.

"You can't know something by standing outside of it."

I do not need to go personally talk to Mr Bush or to experience the presence of his energy to know the wisdom or validity of his foreign policy.

"I'm sorry you're too afraid to step inside and immerse yourself."

I am exceedingly glad, on the other hand, to be free of the pernicious influence of any spiritual teacher.

"You can give any excuse you want, but until you do this, you can't judge. Again, are you that afraid of your own weakness of character that you'll be swept away. It seems if you're willing to trash Sadhguru, it would be worth the money. I'm sure you could get donations! There are plenty of ex cult members who are 'deprogrammed' and tell the world their experience. Why is this not the case with Isha? "

Isha is still relatively new, and Sadhguru is cleverer than most.

"Have you applied that concept to your logic?"

Oh, I thought you didn't put much "faith" in logic! Then why appeal to me with logical arguments? :-)

Anonymous said...

Wow, you guys like to "see" yourself talk, huh?

At 56 and after 30 years of hatha yoga and basic meditation, I dedicating 3 solid years to the practices that Sadhguru teaches. My energy is way higher than it was 20 years ago, my memory is way better, my mind works ten times faster, and my body is most definitely healthier, my heart is full and I experience more inner ease and fewer emotional ups and downs than ever before.
Now apart from speculation, isn't the proof in putting what he teaches to the test by doing it and seeing if it works for you?
Enough talk.

jayavelu said...

really appalling discussion, I am also practitioner of yoga and meditation of Sadguru, It really works well in my life. i tell you the truth for the past 3 year i didnt have any sickness in my health part. i am living in germany now studying masters. Even in extreme cool temperature i didnt feel body weakness.

I believe in future, if i had chance i may join samyama and wholeness of sadguruji.

"I think the author of the article is already trained and thinks no need of advancements in his spiritual process. "

#ok

so funny of egoistic "question" and #answer. i like it.

some people wont spend even a penny if they think everything is known to them. i leave the author opinion about the other to himself.

knowledge wont give solution, practise gives the solution.

Anonymous said...

Is there any one who has access to the Coimbatore newspapers with information about Viji Vasudev's disappearance? If we did, and someone could upload a scanned image, we could add a wikipedia link on the subject. Some people have tried to post such things in the past on the "jaggi vasudev" page on wikipedia and it was promptly taken down by sadhguru devotees as being "slander." From personal experience, I truly think this man is a crook.

Anonymous said...

1st of all i think ur a complete jack ass if u could not understand the simple logic put foward but sadhguru guess u r 1 of those misrable shit pickerz wanting 2 pick shit n cant find anything....and forur clarity the bmws and the vehicles he travels in r that of the colunters in tat area trying 2 xperss their gratitude in sum other way.. u bter get a taste of his joy and it will change ur life u wont b wasting ur time looking for job less shit like this

Anonymous said...

no offence ment... but abt the vaccum..the only vacum hee is ur brain!!

Rubesh said...

Well staying in Coimbatore during the Maha samadhi of JV s wife and being a journalist myself i would like 2 make a point.JV was never arrested and the dailies you have mentioned just raised a suspicion.I know JV was enquired and found unguilty.Nakeeran which raised it as an issue now carries Q&A of JV.gopal going to LS ..high imagination.Check before making sweeping statements.
rubesh@gmail.com

Ram said...

Why do you care about what he is and what he does. From my personal experience the tool works. And I am sure a million people wll come frward to say the same.My blood pressure and allergies vanished within 6 mnths of practices for sure.

It really doesnt matter if you believe or not. It does not make any difference. But I think it is sad that some people will make opinions and miss out on a great opportunity like this.
My appeal to Herman and his friends...if you cannot do good to others...please do not prevent good from being delivered.

Once again... I am not a follower of anyone. The kriya is like a medicine and it works.

harmanjit said...

All the "It works!" folks might want to check a link:

The Pragmatic Fallacy

Anonymous said...

As a resident of Coimbatore and as a person who has known a number of people close to Isha I have always had my own reservations about various practises in the center. Lingam has been given a new definition unlike the original reference to Lord Shiva which has come down the ages.

Everything has been redefined in terms of energies, chakras etc. I've been to Isha center in the outskirts of Coimbatore, it's full of symbols but doesn't allude to a cult system directly though the indirect references are obvious. Many followers of this sect are mesmerised by the Sadhguru that some of their actions border on the illogical. When so much is talked about science and logic some of the acts are illogical like the use of inanimate object to create positive vibes.

Isha is a costly place, the school that is run is not a charity institution. One look at the inner circle in Isha and the fact that all of the people involved are rich would be clear. It would be unfair to brand the organization to have ulterior motives but a solidified mercury, getting to energize a linga with one's mind and some things like that are a little off normal human understanding.

The organization had grown manifold from it's humble beginnings. What's striking is the media coverage that is given when anything happens. Surely the organization has deep connections and pockets.

Anonymous said...

let me first tell you the reason for my responding to this blog....it is not out of concient or ego that i say this, but i usually do not write a blog myself or respond to any unless it becomes a compelling need in me. Isha per se has had a great impact on me and i have spent long hours reading about jaggi,his books, isha and spirituality in general. therefore i do wish to express my point of view on this with full sincerety.
Jaggi claims to have been a skeptic till "it" happened to him...i consider my self to be a skeptic too. and therefore i do not see any reason to discard a theory all together because there is no scientific evidence for that. may be science has not yet reached there. after all we all know the boundaries of science. even science has not been able to give answers to the mysteries of the universe, of space and time. however, there is no reason for believing a theory unless there is a proof given to it. as it is mentioned in "A brief history of time" by stephen hawkings - "a good theory is characterized by the fact that it makes a number of predictions that could in
principle be disproved or falsified by observation. Each time new experiments are observed to agree with the
predictions the theory survives, and our confidence in it is increased; but if ever a new observation is found to
disagree, we have to abandon or modify the theory."....infact there still could be a scope for doubt even if you have made an observation or you experience something...the experience or observation could be mere haluciantions or may be its just your mind that is making you see something (as some philosophers like desacrates have proposed).
Coming back to Jaggi or most of the spiritual leaders, they make use of the limitations of science and at the same time use science like the quantum theory and theory of relativity to gain credibility for their teachings. there is no reason to totally disbeleive them, you can not disprove what they say....it is definetely a possibility. but there is no way they could prove their theory either. science always provides a methodology by which a theory can be proved or disproved. following a given set of steps, you would reach the expected results. if you do not reach the results, the theory can be disproved. but is there a way, jaggi can tell you following which you would reach the expected result in spirituality. I have heard them say " if you are willing, it would happen to you this very moment" and since it doesnt happen to you, you were not willing enough. so there is always a possibility left but their theory is just one possibilty among the infinite possibilities that exist for the mysteries, for the unanswered questions or the "ultimate answer to the ultimate question". (one of the answers could also be the number "42" as clamied by dougles adams in his book - the hitchhikers guide... :) )
At the same time, if a belief or a faith, whether true or not, can help people be in a better state of mind, can help people live a better life, it cannot be classified as harmful. having attended afew programs at isha i beleive that these programs are surely a great recreation for the stressed out wealthy class of the society. it is a better experience than any other resort can provide them (atleast for most of the people). and there are many programs for the less priviledged class as well. they may not be as lavish but they can still do wonders...atleast for a short period.
may be jaggi has something in him, something more than just a good speaking ability. but i dont see any reason for myself to have blind faith in him. may be what jaggi says is correct, may be he is actually "enlightened" or may be he is just faking it, may be there is an ulterior purpose for his organisation, it could money, fame, power, anything. in fact i personally do not approve of afew things done at isha including the high fee for the isha school that gives an entry only to children with rich parents, even giving a euphemistic terms like "donation" for the high fee that they charge for their programs. but as long as it helps thousands of people to live a better quality of life...be in a better state of mind or just get out of their routine and have a good recreation by just shelling out some money that they can pretty much afford, and probably also get rid of some of their ailments it cannot be all that bad either. I didnt have any miraculous experience after attending the programs and staying in the ashram for a short while....but it was no less than a miracle all the same - it made me think...it made me question my own beliefs!!!

Anonymous said...

Mr.Herman's mature years will be spent in Isha Centre, Coimbatore.

Anonymous said...

i was a very high diabetic for little over 12 years and was living on few varieties of insulins. By chance started on the yoga techniques of Isha since Aug-07 and the diabetes has become normal and in the process of shifting to Oral medications. Why dont you guys just be there keeping out your great minds for a few days and allow the freshness to get in, Jaggi or no Jaggi, the process of isha yoga is here to stay as long as it works

Anonymous said...

I have just become aware of this guru and having read only a little of what he has written I can only say that I am truly amazed and appalled that people think that his work is interesting or original. From what I see there is a lot of window dressing, little real spirituality.
I have read about half of 'Midnights with the Mystic' during which Sadhguru arrives on a plane from India to the US, drives at great speed, thereby breaking the law and presumably without insurance,has a nice rest while two women cook his dinner, then keeps them up half the night. Not a man who supports feminist principles. And he has a hand maiden called Leela and has built himself a large phallus in his ashram back in India! Are we supposed to be impressed? What ever happened to the womens movement?

a2tom said...

The author of this blog is a bit overly fascinated with himself and his take on Sadhguru. Heres my not so fascinating take. I paid 260 bucks to learn yoga..... it was a very interesting experience and I consider it money well spent. The guy is very bright, charismatic and funny. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to recommend inner engineering to a friend. I have noticed some folks are a bit overly enamored of him "imho" but he OFFERS something concrete and useful to almost anyone.... a SEVEN day yoga, breathing and meditation class, an excellent nutrition consultation and some funny jokes....thats a car payment "or less" for fine service rendered....so relax blogger.

Anonymous said...

Wow, a great blog, I've been reading the comments with great interest looking at things from both sides of the fence. I wish to add a few comments below that I hope other readers will find of interest.

I was first aware of Sadhguru in from the Astha TV network in 2006. I found out about the inner engineering course and decided to attend. We had question and answer sessions, ate some very tasty food, played some outdoor games and over the few days learned some physical excercises and yoga techniques in preparedness for the session on the last day. Throughout the whole program I allowed myself to be 'receptive' to everything that was going on, i.e. I wasn't in mentally scrutinising mode, (a bit like watching a movie and not looking out for the goofs! see imdb.com movie pages if you dont understand the analogy!)

When we meditated, sadhguru said a visulisation piece about imaging caring for 1 person, then ten, then 1000 then 10,0000 etc while were were in this deep meditative state. At the time, I thought that this was a way of saying that we can be unlimited but looking back Im not so sure, maybe he wanted me to collect donations from 10,000 people? - thats a joke! -relax Isha volunteers!


That was two and a half years ago and since then I can't say that I have benefitted from the course. This is because I have not kept up with the meditative techniques that Sadhguru has recommended we do twice daily for the first 40 days, maybe I will do this, but I haven't been disiplined enough to do this yet, (although it only take 15 mins twice a day).

What I'm about to say is a bit abit of a leap from what other bloggers have said and I would urge you to look into these things yourself and not to believe me.

I would urge you to watch the video's "gods of the new age" and "the money masters" both on google videos.

Sadhguru fits into the agenda for eastern mystics blending spiritualism with science, and exporting this worldwide. He has made a few appearances at Davos, the World Economic Forum also United Nations millenium peace summit. Plus BBC, Bloomberg, CNBC, CNNfn, and Newsweek (quoted from Sadhgurus wikipedia page)

Being well spoken does not qualify you to network with big media, this agenda runs very deep and Jaggi's organisation is well funded.

We have witnessed an crazy week on the financial markets, Banks collapsing that will leave the American citizen with trillions of debt, the rest of the world too soon! Food shortages, Police state, FEMA camps - the whole of society is changing. Understand why this is happening and who is behind it and question the nature of reality!! It's convenient that guys like Jaggi are on the scene just at the right time when action is needed. We are gonna get angry, the liberty of all of us is at stake. Jaggi is just gonna say "you are not your mind, not your emotions etc...."

ps I am a hindu, not a christian, (just incase any Isha members wanted to discredit me)
Please, blog readers do your own research, while we still have the net. Spread this blog post if you thing it is worthy. I have to write my name as anoymous because of what I have revealed. Regardless, everyone should stand for truth.

Anonymous said...

A few years ago, I traveled to the Isha Center near Coimbatore to do the Wholeness program. After a week of yoga and eating healthy food I felt very good. The ashram was clean and well organized. I felt that has followers were bordering on militant and obsessive. Later i went to some more programs back in the US. I even enrolled my wife in a 7 day with him. When she was taking the seven day i got to see more of the behind scenes and definitely found it to be very cultish. As with many spiritual organizations the followers are always seeking approval of the 'master.' I also saw that the followers took better care Jaggi then they did their own children. Their marketing and PR is great, I have to admit. The dedication of the followers is also very impressive.

Personally, i found Jaggi to be very distant and pretentious. The story about his wife taking samadhi and leaving her body never sat right with me or my wife especially since she was leaving her own child behind.

I have seen followers go in to states making very strange sounds with their bodies jerking. when ever Jaggi was asked about it he never answered directly. he just said that they've been around longer so they're more open to his energy. I used some techniques of manipulation with his ring finger and would say that if anyone knew how to properly do it, they could also control others. This was kinda scary. I've seen others give there lives away to him and i've also see how he's inadvertantly asked for them to do so. He wanted me to support one of his medical ambulances by giving a couple thousand dollars a week but couldn't even remember my first name after spending so much time with him. I see his popularity growing in leaps and bounds. his books are nothing but ramblings and hard to get anything from them.

that's some of what i experienced. yes the techniques of pranayam work nicely but giving up your mind and life for someone else is not being responsible- a word he talks alot about but in a confusing way.

pranayams work but again that's what they do. he didn't create the pranayams or yoga for that matter but has used them to gather people to do his bidding. he's very intelligent but there's something more to Jaggi behind all the good press and marketing. this i'm sure about and that's my gut instinct as well as experience.

my wish is that more people wake up to the BS

pedder said...

I loved the Pragmatic Fallacy link. But it fails by its own logic. you can't do double blind placebo trials on yoga. you either do it and it works, do it and it don't, or you don't do it. so it will always remain scientifically unproven. Which means science can neither prove nor disprove it. So we have to rely on people's experience. On balance, it would seem that there are no comments from people regularly practicing who have had bad results, or no results, only people who have found tremendous benefit. Myself - i did inner engineering 4 yrs ago - i practice every day, have much better health and energy, and better relationships with friends and family. I visit the ashram from time to time, soak it up, then go back to my life. If it is a feel-good course, well i'm still waiting for it to wear off.

The Mystic 1 said...

I have to say that there is a sound that vibrates in the universe.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/09sep_blackholesounds.htm

Harmanjit Singh said...

Hi Mystic 1,

What the NASA article says is simply this:

"In 2002, astronomers obtained a deep Chandra observation that shows ripples in the gas filling the cluster. These ripples are evidence for sound waves that have traveled hundreds of thousands of light years away from the cluster's central black hole."

Perceived ripples in a gas cluster is a far cry from a sound in vacuum, which is impossible by definition.

Anonymous said...

I have done a few courses at Isha and I must say I havent felt any earth shaking change to my life. But I have certainly felt a perceptible difference in myself and in the way I interact with the world and the way I live. A very positive difference. Workwise too, I dont feel stress as much as I used to and my memory has improved too. I keep up with the practices as regularly as I can. I have met Sadhguru many times and have interacted with him closely. He is very intelligent, well read, sharp and theres something about him that sets him apart. Im not brain washed or blinded but you have to be blind or stupid not to see that he has something divine. Plus he is doing so much good work on such large scales that it has to be seen to be believed.
If you cant appreciate him and Isha, atleast dont trash him like this. And raking up muck from the past, whats the point really?

He is not doing it for himself, he is trying to do it for you and me, for the society as a whole. And so what if he has powerful connections, atleast he is using them for the right causes. So let the good man be...

Anonymous said...

Anyone who wants to do good for the benefit of mankind in general neither requires a political or wide media forum to brag about it, nor do they charge for imparting information that supposedly improves life for all. Anyone who does so is self motivated and has ulterior motives. If someone wishes to plant trees, it need not be done with a great deal of media and political hype about it...just do it. People like Jaggi or even Mother Teresa who are considered great but do things for their own benefit are selfish....Mother Teresa only helped those who she could convert to Christianity. Her school would not accept a student unless he converted. I do not have a problem with them being self motivated. I have a problem with them trying to appear otherwise and manipulate people. The philosophy of loving all and accepting one's current state in life while trying to improve it and thus achieving inner peace is nothing new or radical. It has been stated in many self help books. By the way who made Jaggi SADGURU which means TRUE GURU - a title that almost implies all other gurus are untrue? I dont believe in any guru that tells people he has higher power than the one supreme being (if He exists) and that the only way to be one with God is through the guru or God's ONLY son (Jesus Christ). I am as much God's child as any other living being (animal/human). Why do I want an indirect path to God if I can interact with Him directly? I know that doing good to others, making others happy and soothing aching hearts is a soulful way of living and brings peace. It also is the best form of prayer.

Ravi S Ghosh said...

Quite an extensive blog entry and comment section.

I agree with the critics of your blog that reason and science cannot judge anything and everything and that we cannot say there is no sound vacuum if we cannot hear them. One cannot argue with reasons when the opponent undermines the concept of reason itself.

However, I did attend the Inner Engineering program of Isha and found that it was very much cult like, the behavior of teachers, mery-go-round type thoughts, more of advertisement and fund raising program.

I was awakened when I came across Osho's (another cult though) book Inner Journey and found that many of the Inner Engineering program contents (including program name) were taken from that book without a single mention of Osho. When question about Osho when he visited bangalore, Jaggi Vasudev simply avoided that question.

One more thing I could not understand is that why Isha is so concerned about enlightenment of rich America whereas many poor countries of Africa and Asia are eagerly waiting for someone to lift them from misery.

Anyway, the Isha organization and their followers (including those who commented) show classical signs of cult and their parasite-host relationship.

Anonymous said...

I have done inner engineering designed by sadhguru,(as he calls)_
and then his next level BSP the bhava spandana, i followed all his instuction on its face value
The results::
There is nothing spiritual as such its a kind of "break the routine and enjoy the scenery" type experience. his word are miracle which will brainwash you and one will end up with blind faith. it resembles like army commanders are generating the mind less people (they call it shoonya) , the shits

however his plantation work and contribution to education is good
but for god sake, do't call it spirituality and make it that cheap in the eyes of westeren people

be a social worker leader whatever u call............

Anonymous said...

jaggi has cheated, my friend's life has been spoiled, his fascination for isha made him non performer in professional arena and he lost his job and his son and wife are weeping

beware

A Seeker said...

First, I'd like to note that I completed 4 of the Isha Yoga programs. Although I'm no expert, I have a firm grasp on the group. Some details over the years have sounded off loud warning bells which ultimately painted a clear picture for me. I feel compelled to share.

Firstly, ANY amount of disciplined meditation program for a set amount of time would create some changes in your life. Hey, you're doing something different than you usually do, right?
Secondly, NO ONE has any proof Isha Yoga truly benefits them (how do you know how your life would be had you not done Isha Yoga?) Call it the Uncertainty Principle, or anything else you like.
Thirdly, where are all these 'enlightened' students of Isha? I'm not expecting an Avatar to show up tomorrow but I was surprised to see so much bickering among the ashram volunteers. No lie...bickering! Wait, I'm sensing a lot of tension (and self-righteousness) from some of the Isha defenders here :)

Some of the warning bells...
1) Sadhguru dominates his discussions without allowing any challenge from his audience. He often will belittle and batter someone down if they question him or his comments. Especially men.
2) I've seen his wandering eyes for the young pretty girls too often to miss. He is often unapproachable but I have seen him often approach the pretty ones when they weren't even looking at him. There's more on this subject but the point is made.
3) Did I just witness people fainting as soon as he outstretched his arms? (This was after a crescendo of music at the end of one of the intensive programs). Yes, it's Elvis all over again. You don't need to be a guru to create strong emotions in people.
4) The recruitment process for potential meditators is apalling. I always heard that when a student was ready, the teacher appears. But with Isha, the students are created and the teacher is waiting.
5) The money! Wow. At one of the residential programs, an announcement was made that there was a secret donor who would match dollar for dollar up to half a million bucks. The audience was amazed and eagerly rushed to the donation table with check books in hand. That must have worked out well because I've heard this happened quite a few times after with different (but high) dollar amounts. Hmmm...were there even any secret donors?
6) Someone here mentioned this already but I had to add to it. I was already an avid reader of a few other spiritual leaders before Isha. So I was amazed at the Isha programs when Sadhguru's talks echoed Osho. I even went back to the Osho readings to confirm. Yep. Check out Osho's 'Book of Secrets.' Which, by the way, has similar meditation techniques!
7) The emotional outbursts and crazed actions during meditations. OK. They happen a LOT. It was quite disturbing for me at first. Especially after years at Isha and I still wasn't having as good of a time as some others were having. I took these outbursts as signs of Isha working. But then I watched a documentary called "Jesus Camp." It was like a carbon copy of Isha. Except in Jesus Camp, people go into emotional outbursts and tears of ecstasy over Jesus. (See item #3 above) Yes, I'm glad I still have my logical mind (my slave and master) to 'see' outside of Isha. Which brings me to the last item I'll post...
8) Mindless followers who dare not question Sadhguru or allow a challenge to their beliefs. You'll notice Isha meditators have nothing new to say. They just echo Sadhguru or tell the person challenging to 'experience' the programs. Of course, I agree one can 'judge' more completely if one has the experience. But a complete and balanced person will remain open minded and not shut the door on one experience over the other. Which is what Isha Meditators do (as is obvious in these posts). They follow with fervor and freely give up their rational thinking minds cuz that's what guru says you need to do to be saved (wait, that sounds familiar).

People on this post keep repeating 'are you seeking to know?' So what exactly do these people KNOW thanks to Sadhguru? Ultimately, I asked myself that question and the answers came in all my little red flags listed here (plus MANY more).

For me, in the beginning, I was amazed at Sadhguru's easiness, humor, logic and charity. It's easy to accept everything he says. To all the 'seekers' on this board...what's with the self-righteous attitude that you now have all the answers and that you KNOW? (BTW, that is classic cult follower attitude) All in all, I believe everyone is seeking. Its a human trait. And hopefully some seekers will find these posts :)

So, in summary, did I gain enlightentment or achieve the levels of peace, health and well-being he promised? Nope. However, to be fair and honest, I did notice increased calm and tolerance. Can I attribute that to Isha. Nope again. In fact, I've noticed much deeper effects from a different, more simpler form of meditation. Go figure. However, I learned some incredible lessons from all those years in Isha, which only the 'Isha experience' taught me.

Important final comment...
At one of the Isha programs in Tenn, Sadhguru actually mentioned someone online calling Isha a cult. He denounced of course. That's when I found this website, I figured it must have been you he was talking about. So congrats to Harmanjit. You're a household name at the Isha HQ!

Ravi S Ghosh said...

Now, I feel enlightened since I know the way of "rags to riches" starts from guruism.

And I want to shout this out:

PLEASE WAKE UP THE AUTHORITIES/CULT MONITORING AGENCIES, ETC., IN UNITED STATES ABOUT ISHA.

In india, there is no such authority and hence, I'am thinking of starting my career in guruism. :)

Seeker said...

Ravi, that's the problem with guru-ism. There is no crime in it.
People are freely giving their money in spiritual quest. It's a common theme across many religious groups. Sadly, many of the guru led groups that have blatant accusations of sexual misconduct, drugs, alcohol, and financial 'cooking' of the books, still manage to stay under the radar. Mostly because devotees hide most of the info but also because of the 'humanitarian' acts these gurus do. Some are even part of the world religious leaders or economic forum (as Jaggi is) so are part of UN entities.

Unfortunately, until someone actually brings them to court, they will continue to flourish, raking in devotees, money and blind faith. While those with open eyes sit by and try to warn others through humble posts on blogs like these :).

Please read "Stripping the Gurus" you can download ebook for free. I don't know if someone already posted it here but it truly is 'enlighteing'!

Anonymous said...

It is easy to believe if a mass crowd believes some thing even if it wrong. Only few people has courage to stand against it and talk about it too. Guruji followers instead of calling others to the camp why don't you join Binladen group and experience what he is saying then decide he is right or wrong. Please think some time what you are doing right.You have brain don't shut it down.

extra-ordinary said...

The only true guru of the ages was Ramana Maharishi. He was a true realized soul who did not build an empire around himself , did not leave his ashram until his death and even now his ashram does not seek donations.
Everybody else just seem to be feeding their ego.Some realization that is!!!!!

peter said...

its funny the things people will spend their time critisizing.. I'd have thought there were better targets for your critisisms than someone who has spent his life teaching yoga, planting trees, educating (as well as the rich) hundreds, if not thousands of rural kids, (how many schools do isha vidhya have now?), healing the sick in rural south india, teaching prisoners to meditate and generally trying to raise the happiness levels of humankind. Takes all sorts i guess. I had two chronic health problems when i first visited the ashram. One dissapeared completely within 6 months of practice, the other is much less troublesome. Critisize away if you like, but ask yourself how much you have contributed to human well-being?

andy said...

You see how defensive the followers get justifying their new-found belief system.

Before you give your money and soul to scam artists, put their 'good deeds' into perspective.

The privelege to send your child to Isha school will set you back a few thousand bucks and you can not have any interaction with your child during the year.

Nothing wrong with planting trees. But one day of planting pales in comparison to the time, energy and money spent on building his Isha empire with valuable western dollars.

Isha is a multi-million dollar business. Just like the other scam ashrams in India and America. In order for these businesses to keep all the money made from the desperate masses, they have to list themselves as charity work, and throw a few charitable works in the pot to keep the millions.

No one has walked out more enlightened than when they walked in. Followers never get ahead of the leader.

Anonymous said...

Hi Harman!

Pretty intense thread, indeed! I appreciate your views here. But few points I'd like to mention:

First of all - I'm NOT a follower of Sadhguru. I DO NOT practise Isha Yoga. Infact I'm NOT a follower of anyone for that matter. But these are my objective observations regarding Sadhguru:

1) He does a lot of humanitarian, ecological, social activities; No one can deny that;

2) His basic Inner Engineering (Isha Yoga) has definitely seem to have worked for lots & lots of people; Health improvements & stress reduction to a great extent. So this works basically for most people. This should definitely be welcomed.

3) Regarding whether this is a cult or new age religion - who cares! As long as it carries on #1 & #2.

4) Regarding Sadhguru's opinions on spirituality & science. Again who cares . What bothers me. Sadhguru himself says in his videos not to "follow" or "believe" him & just do the practise his tool (Isha Yoga). If it does not work he says to give this up & move on with anything else. I think this is being logical & open.

5) Whether he is swindling the dollars or not; Here is the answer for this from sadhguru.org:

"How do I know that the money I donate actually goes to the affected people?
Isha Foundation can provide accounts for the spending of the donor’s contribution, upon request. All account statements are audited by a Chartered Accountant and submitted to the Income Tax Department, as per law."

My personal opinion. His words are definitely wiser than many; His social works are definitely larger than many other's; much more difficult than simply writing blogs & responses !!! No offense :-)

Dharma said...

Harmanjit.

Are you familiar with the 'teachings' (the person who taught himself says they are not his teachings) of Jiddu Krishanmurthi.
Everyone has different bundle of hoguhts. And yours I believe would best resonate when you read anything about J.Krishnamurthi.
Do you think you are not a follwer? at any level. Are you not following a certain system of logic called Mechanical Logic that we learn from since our mind starts developing? Everything we learn in our schools forms a basis to our thinking. And if you are familiar with basis sets in Quantum Mechanics, you will learn (this is suject to the individual's IQ and his basis of logic) that basis no longer means basis as defined in the beginning. You can form a basis set with any set of functions.

Why I am saying this is to make you aware that being open to something doesn't close anywhere. To be able to accept that anything is possible is the first step in open-ness. I and am assuming you too have never traveled to outer space. Most of today's outer space data is with NASA. Most of the ground-breaking discoveries are claimed by NASA. I am also assuming you are not working for NASA. So how do we believe what photographs and data they publish are true. It is a known fact that there are many conspiracy theories about the U.S. govt. functioning. So how do we believe? Do we have to believe? Why bother about outer space when in our lifetimes we (you and me (assuming that you are not rich enough to make a trip to space)) cannot go there? A beggar shouts 'I am better than you'. What do you do? You ignore? No. You choose to ignore. Fundamentally everything that happens has its own way. It is you and me that make a choice to think which way about any which way.
Today modern systems of logic are being developed (by the Scientists - this I assume we have a common definition - a schoolbook one) to look at the world in a different way. Why are they doing? It is because they are finding two extraneous possibilities using the same model. Here is an example of one system of logic. But I doubt you will be interested in it as this requires tremendous abstraction (if this level of abstraction were present in you, you would not have interpreted the said in this manner). Everybody has their biological limitations. You don't seem (this may be subject to human error) to have studied Quantum theories yet as such by yourself - not the internet jingo. And you should have a read on Quantum Computing to understand the essential nature of logic, more specifically, Computational logic - the one even you are familiar with.

After studying these and making your own interpretations, let us talk. And in most cases (with my friends), people are dumbstruck. Probably, because they realize they know nothing. Still, the process of science goes on...

The strong (the more intelligent ones) have the power to use the weak.

You are using this. And you can only use this method (of course you are doing it out of innocence)till someone even more intelligent challenges your thought.

All the Best. I advise you do not write such opinion-generating blogs. Writing about experiences is better. It is completely accepted by Logic, as we know it.

Awaiting your reply. And sorry for the extremely long read.

Anonymous said...

I attended this program in Oct 2009. I am a Hindu, Indian. I would definitely tell this is a cult system. My neighbour is isha-ite and was pushing me to attend this one. He worked as a volunteer for the session which I attended. He did all the works( Keeping other's shoes at right place, serving food, cleaning the dining area etc). But he lives in the same apartment building where I live. But he would not put his hands even when we need help from him even for small causes in the apartment. I do not understand how these people get transformed into such a nice person when they volunteer for these programs.

Now let me come to the programme.

1. Basic of Yoga is NOT to do with any pain. It should be effortless. But you can not do most of the yoga (taught in Isha) without pain. When asked they would say that in practice it will be fine. Correct.. In practice, everything becomes normal.. even weight lifting.

2. Pranayama is proven and even Doctors would recommend it. JV did not invent it and it is there already

3. "You should not teach", "very confidential" - Real self realized person will not threat like this.

4. Self realization is NOT a fast food.

5. So many follow-ups and push from volunteers is very similar to multi level marketting people (Amway)

6. Teacher who spent her 8 years in Isha got anger when a participant was differentiating from her point of view. I do not why she was not able to enjoy that particular moment when there is not even a provocation from him.

7. vegetarianism, accept others, responsibility.. all these are good. But these are packaged very well in his programme.

8. Nadi, Vedic concepts, yoga .. bla bla.. I enjoyed the similar way how I enjoyed when my father and his friend used to discuss about these things during my childhood.

Finally well packaged, well marketted and well organized -- 'sales' programme.

Tlc said...

to Anonymous at 11:58

You say you're not an isha follower. So you just happened to come across this blog, researched isha and sadhguru and felt compelled to not only read thru all isha information but also post here lots of details defending sadhguru? You simply take the side of the followers who claim they are better because of isha and simply believe everything sadhguru has to say? Impressive faith for someone who doesn't follow sadhguru.

OR.......

You really are a sjv devotee and feel compelled to defend yourself and your guru. In order to appear unbiased, and deflect criticism, you say you don't follow him.

Which is more likely?

Anonymous said...

BTW:

The 'chartered accountant' who does isha taxes.... Is a devotee of sadhguru.

And of course sadhguru says the paperwork is available. By law, it HAS to be! Isha enjoys the tax benefits of being a 'charity' in this country. But who is asking for this paperwork? Certainly none of his followers would DARE to doubt or look into isha finances.

WildOrchid said...

From the age old days the guru shishya (disciple) parampara was treated with great respect and love. Also Guru never used to take any dakshina and foremost he used to never give diksha to every Tom Dick and Harry!. Now a days spirituality has become a time pass and lost its authenticity. People talk about Kundalini just like that...thanks to the 21st century Gurus. One thing is for sure people will become more and more aware in the coming years and they will decide who is real and who is fake. So, lets leave it to the time and not forget that all disorders lead to order.

coimbats17 said...

Hi I am from Coimbatore. Few years ago I joined a class( Pranayama & Medetation ) which was conducted by Rishi Prabakar , he was from Mysore. This was a 13 days class and we were the first batch of students.Jaggi and another lady Pankaj was the senior students of Rishi Prabakar and they help him in conducting the class. So I finished the 13 days course and few things I accepted and few I rejected. But Jaggi & Pankaj became good friends of mine . So on week ends they used to meet at my home and we had good saturday afternoon lunch sessions. One afternoon juggi and me had a discussion regarding starting adventure sports in coimbatore ( Hang gliding )so those days I had only a 2 wheeler,and with that we went to a nearby temple called Marudhamali , its a temple located on the hill. As we drove up the hill a Peacock took off from a hill top and glided over us and landed on a near by tree. Juggi immidieatly told me this is a lovely place to start hang gliding. After this incidence I lost touch with juggi and only see him on the TV new and local papers. But Pankaj still keeps in touch with me and she has an Ashram in Theni near Madurai.

Anonymous said...

option is with each one of us to chose and follow what we need!truth many things are working beyond logic.so, everything we can not expect to fall with in the ambient of reason and logic alone only!if one can go through 'experiment with truth' by Ghandhi, can easily understand the power of inner 'SELF', which we need to realize and grow in experience in our day to day interaction in our worldly life. the power of our self and becoming master of our self and attain liberation is the 'goal' for each human. you may just think it over.

Eleanor said...

Lots of great debate here, but what's actually been resolved? The author of the post still thinks Isha is a cult, and the Isha participants disagree. So what?

This is how every conversation about self development programs goes. Someone accuses something of being a cult, others disagree, and few people ask more useful questions like, "How might I benefit from this program?" or "Can I trust this organization?" or "How are the teachers trained?" or "Has anyone who isn't biased toward the organization voiced an opinion?"

Let's ask better questions.

Anonymous said...

"How might I benefit from this program?"
If you believe in ANY program, you will "benefit" as far as your belief takes you.

"Can I trust this organization?"
NO!

"How are the teachers trained?"
In Jaggi's methods only. It is an authoritarian group

"Has anyone who isn't biased toward the organization voiced an opinion?"
If I say something you don't like or believe in, will you label me biased?

Anonymous said...

Coimbats,
Would you care to share the pranayama and meditation techniques you learned in Rishi's class? I'm curious how they compare to Jaggi's meditations. I see a lot of Osho in Jaggi's style too.

I believe you that he'd be interested in adventure sports - he likes to drive fast cars, motorcycles and boats!

Anonymous said...

I was raised in India in a very educated, "rational", logical, almost atheiest family. We were never taught rituals etc. I personally never sought anything like that. I did have a T.M type of meditation practice. I stumbled into Isha by chance. My expirences have been inexplicable. I stay away from attending too many events because I do not want to belong to a cult. My daily meditation routine has changed my life. Basic Hindu tenets have taught us the same things over milliniuims. Who cares what the path is? Who the teacher at that point of time is? Who the conduit is? Heck if he wants to build an empire let him. It is a lot better than lot of stuff going around.

Erique said...

Can you tell me how he solidified mercury at room temperature...???
It is a contradiction to modern science

saket said...

Dear Anonymous,

Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev ji, me and many more like us who believe in the good of life would like to shun you, because that is our purpose. And ofcourse if you are ready to learn we can teach you because it is not a cult but the fight between the GOOD and the EVIL that has existed since time began... so I pray to your great divine soul to join us and love ..just love my friend !!! Amen.

Anonymous said...

Peace and love to you man, sounds like you desperately need it!!!!! And also, you need to do something constructive with all this free time you have on your hands, instead of taking uninformed potshots at a wonderful, warm and funny human being who has nothing but the best intentions(and methods), for all of humanity, without any expectations of personal gain.

Don't tell me you don't covet the latest model BMW or Ferrari yourself, and I'm sure you think of yourself as a good human being(and i bet you are). which law/spiritual text says that a man doing a good samaritan's work is to renounce all things worldly/material, like BMW motorbikes and plush hotel rooms? If you can quote something to prove me wrong, I'd happily concede this point to you.

And like said countless times before, why don't you give one of the programs a shot to really understand the "brain washing" that goes on, so you have the privilege of talking through experience, instead of your ______?

Much love and peace to you.

Dharma said...

@Saket: What have you learned from the Master? Nothing like good or evil exists.
"good of life" haahaha. What is it? there is "life". That's all.
And Sadhguru would not like to shun anyone be it a dog, a human, or an inanimate object. Shunning will lead you to nowhere. Instead embrace. Embrace the good and evil, both, in equal measure, without any consequence, that is.
Is it not this that Sadhguru has taught? You are just including something else to give this guy a chance to pounce upon.

Anonymous said...

I had attended Jaggi's classes in 1990. Those were his early days. The name ISHA was yet to be coined. They were calles SSY then. (Sahaja Sthithi Yoga). My whole family was involved.

I have had some very bad experiences from the outset. The effect of Jaggi's brain-washing so effective that even my family members chided me if I raised doubts about him ar complained. I knew they were after our money.

Most of my relatives joined the 'fun'. Almost everybody except a few weaklings stayed within limits. My family went overboard, hosting Jaggi whenever he travelled to our town, donating generously etc etc.

After over 20 years of association this is the state of my family. The next generation (children) of one of my families (siblings) got so involved that all of them decided to take bhramacharyam. They are swamis toiling the Ashram now. The father got disillusioned because of this and tried to bring them back from the ashram. He was bullied by Jaggi and his people. And to top it all off Jaggi counselled him to marry off his daughter to another Swami at the ashram. When the father refused, the ashram inmated conducted the marriage themselves. The kids had the backing of their mother who also stayed at the ashram.

The father put on a spirited fight, but was no match to Jaggi's conniving ways and his goons.

Then Jaggi fired his next salvo. He sent the mother and kids home to fight with their father and 'not come back empty-handed'. They stayed in the house, fought with him every minuted, abused him with foul language that even illiterate goons would hesitate to use, abused anyone who tried to mediate. The son-in-law also joined the 'party' and was trying to get 'their due share'.

In the process, the father was driven out of his house, and was abused in every imaginable way. This continued for a few years, till he agreed to part with a hefty sum of money AND the house.

As soon as they got the money and the house they sold the house and took the bounty and left for Isha. (It appears that Isha one will be treated like dirt if they come in empty-handed). So the mother and her children (and her son-in-law) are all swamis at the ashram now. They are teachers teaching yoga now to gullibles.

Seeing & Hearing all the abuse they hurled at others (The father and relatives, mediators etc), I can understand how effective Isha's classes are.

This is the gist of what happend to my (sibling's) family. I know of many other familes that have been shattered by Jaggi in my town.

And I still keep wondering, why were sanyasins so desperate for money, that they were willing to go to any extent to lay their hands on it?

Research about Jaggi more. Beware, Ur respect for him might fell u.

Anonymous said...

I had attended Jaggi's classes in 1990. Those were his early days. The name ISHA was yet to be coined. They were calles SSY then. (Sahaja Sthithi Yoga). My whole family was involved.

I have had some very bad experiences from the outset. The effect of Jaggi's brain-washing so effective that even my family members chided me if I raised doubts about him ar complained. I knew they were after our money.

Most of my relatives joined the 'fun'. Almost everybody except a few weaklings stayed within limits. My family went overboard, hosting Jaggi whenever he travelled to our town, donating generously etc etc.

After over 20 years of association this is the state of my family. The next generation (children) of one of my families (siblings) got so involved that all of them decided to take bhramacharyam. They are swamis toiling the Ashram now. The father got disillusioned because of this and tried to bring them back from the ashram. He was bullied by Jaggi and his people. And to top it all off Jaggi counselled him to marry off his daughter to another Swami at the ashram. When the father refused, the ashram inmated conducted the marriage themselves. The kids had the backing of their mother who also stayed at the ashram.

The father put on a spirited fight, but was no match to Jaggi's conniving ways and his goons.

Then Jaggi fired his next salvo. He sent the mother and kids home to fight with their father and 'not come back empty-handed'. They stayed in the house, fought with him every minuted, abused him with foul language that even illiterate goons would hesitate to use, abused anyone who tried to mediate. The son-in-law also joined the 'party' and was trying to get 'their due share'.

In the process, the father was driven out of his house, and was abused in every imaginable way. This continued for a few years, till he agreed to part with a hefty sum of money AND the house.

As soon as they got the money and the house they sold the house and took the bounty and left for Isha. (It appears that Isha one will be treated like dirt if they come in empty-handed). So the mother and her children (and her son-in-law) are all swamis at the ashram now. They are teachers teaching yoga now to gullibles.

Seeing & Hearing all the abuse they hurled at others (The father and relatives, mediators etc), I can understand how effective Isha's classes are.

This is the gist of what happend to my (sibling's) family. I know of many other familes that have been shattered by Jaggi in my town.

And I still keep wondering, why were sanyasins so desperate for money, that they were willing to go to any extent to lay their hands on it?

Research about Jaggi more. Beware, Ur respect for him might fell u.

Dharma said...

Yes. It is possible that "Jaggi" extracts money from people. He may have killed his wife like some of them rumour about him. I just don't care. As long as he does things for me, why do I care?!
As long as what he speaks is true (about existence), if it is better than other teachings, if it makes complete sense, why do I care what he does with others??
He might be a very powerful Tantric, or an Aghori. Why do I care as long as he puts me in peace, gives me the courage to follow my inner voice?? I just take from him what is required. It is me who is responsible for myself. So should others think. One cannot afford to be that weak.
I have not been to the Ashram and I have no intention to.
But every great man has around him weak, imbecile people who cannot live in the great man's absence. It is the people around him who make the ashram. For people who have realised the Truth, the whole world is their place, their Ashram. All this 'ashram' shit is made by the 'common-minded' people who get conditioned to what he says rather than learning to 'uncondition' themselves. But certainly, any ashram is a peaceful place compared to other spaces. Whoever leads it and whoever lives there, are people much better (non-affecting) on an average than others living a worldly life.
I still don't understand why people get pissed of when they see others who claim they are 'ideal' or 'close to ideal' even when they are much better than them, but only not as good as they preach!!
People just can't tolerate an ordinary person in loincloth claiming to have seen god. They will definitely point at him, say things, etc. leave alone just ignoring the person and far later following him/her. This is just a problem of the Ego.

Harmanjit Singh said...

Dharma said:

Yes. It is possible that "Jaggi" extracts money from people. He may have killed his wife like some of them rumour about him. I just don't care. As long as he does things for me, why do I care?!

As long as what he speaks is true (about existence), if it is better than other teachings, if it makes complete sense, why do I care what he does with others??


Dharma, you are a true spiritualist. You only care about your own state of mind, the rest of the world anyway is a dream. Only you and your guru are real, the rest are irrelevant who don't matter. It is all about you.

Dharma said...

There is no "rest of the world is a dream anyway" and "Only you and your guru are real, the rest are irrelevant who don't matter. It is all about you.". This is precisely the problem of the human mind; Ill-judgement or lack of accuracy through language.
What should I say when what I think and/or wanted to say doesn't match even remotely with the way you have understood. There is very little than can be done through discourse, the same reason why Masters have always initiated the seeker through an experiential path and not just by giving a thought(s). Thoughts can be misunderstood by oneself but not one's experience.
Still I shall put forth what I think, which is what you seem to be interested in rather than what I have written. So be it.

Everything is either real or not. Not both of them can exist, though of course it is difficult to create a word that neither means 'real' or 'unreal'. Even if such a word was gifted from Nowhere, it still refers to 'something' and not 'nothing'. And this would mean there is something 'else' that is 'not something'. This word should be a 'one' thing and Nothing. Either this existence is 'real' or 'unreal'. The duality exists only within the Mind.
When the I, includes the entire existence, what is me and what are you. Who is a guru and who are you? Everything is Nothing. You care for this one body if your consciousness is within it. If it is spread all over the place, you care for it as a single entity.
And yes, it is about the 'me'. Spirituality is all about oneself. You are right about it all except about how others become irrelevant. Either all are irrelevant or relevant at any given time. Just as much as I think others are irrelevant so am I and my thought. That is why ignorance gained through wisdom is bliss and not just plain ignorance. Ignoring the temporal and spatial happenings is bliss.
And I am still seeking...I cannot stop seeking. That is the problem.

PS: As I counter measure, I would like to state that I am not sure I have conveyed what I wanted to due to the inevitable limitations in my language. :P

Anonymous said...

Wow. It's been years since I took what I considered to be a yoga class, in TN. This was (apparently) the early days, when ISHA was just becoming the name, still Sahaja Sthithi Yoga. The ashram in India was being planned, but had yet to be built.
I took the beginning classes, and did attend BSP. I was broke, and broken, and Jaggi said to come anyway, that it didn't matter about the money. So I did.
When the next "step" was presented, the trip to India, I considered it. But when I found out that women must cover, more than men, and in the intense heat of India...I paused. It was said that the men there get distracted, that if a woman's legs are showing, or if she isn't wearing the "proper undergarments", that a man could be too distracted to practice. What?? Aren't we rising above all of that? Even if the country hasn't advanced in its sexual vs spiritual awareness, should not the ashram be the place of beginning such an advancement? I declined.
That said, I am now (years later) searching the internet for Sahajha Sthithi Yoga, remembering that it was during those practices that I felt the best in my life. I ate better, slept better, breathed easier, had very little anxiety, and seemed overall to be very happy and comfortable in my own skin, and in a world full of people. I had peace.
I'm glad to have found this blog, though I think many have gone over the top, on both "sides".
I've never sought a leader,ever, but rather teachers. And they've come in so many forms. I learn from professors, children, my mother, friends, coworkers...even a murderer and an infuriating exhusband...everyone has a lesson to offer. Just as Jaggi has been mistakenly seen as THE one by some people, so has Jesus. (That could get me in trouble) I believe the truth is that we all have the same potential in us. We could all be as enlightened or smart or capable or amazing as we perceive anyone else to be. It's in collecting these lessons, these teachings, from others/the world/experience, all while guided by your "gut" that lead you back to YOU, the clear and unburdened core that doesn't think the world revolves around you or any one individual. The place in you that doesn't even have to question, or follow, believe or disbelieve. The place that just knows. That's what I'm seeking.
So, I am very glad to have read this, to see such extreme opinions and debate, and for the first time in a while to have NOT had a knee-jerk internal reaction of opinion. I feel reassured in my quest, that I am not seeking a guru, a teacher, a prophet...none other than the one that resides in me.
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Good & "interesting" debate over Isha Foundation, JV & his "teachings"

As said by many, it is best to ignore his "teachings" / "musings" and try to practice yoga / meditation he teaches. As everyone knows, he is not the inventor of these techniques. But in the present day, he has the better ability to attract people towards it.

Yoga/meditation, whether taught by JV or by any other learned master, will have the good effects, if practiced regularly, like any other exercise.

I am soon going to take their 3 day meditation course starting from OCt 1. Any company?!!!

rahul said...

Just dont blame isha yoga foundation that they are taking a lot of money and cheating people.They are spending money towards human upliftment.If u have any doubt just enquire or search in the internet..i think u have made this site for blaming the sadhguru..its not good for u...u said "Sadhguru dominates his discussions without allowing any challenge from his audience."Have u ever listened towards his speeches,these are the words of great wisdom..just try to understand(listen once again).Some anonymous said he is looking at pretty girls..dont just blame such great gurus..have u seen it ..if one guru or swamiji(nithyananda) is like that,you think everybody are like that ..

Mobi said...

If Christ, or Buddha, Lord Shiva, or the master of your choice were to actually again step foot on this planet, I predict that and even much more aggressive movement of persecution would be taking place. Why? Imagine a mirror that is absolutely clean and without distortion, anyone gazing into such a mirror can only see a true reflection of themselves. All of the complaints I hear are nothing more than a telling story of where these “well intentioned” people are at on their path. This entire blog is a telling exposure of individual human awareness. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate those sharing their experiences, especially as a person who is very new to knowing Jaggi. Stumbling upon this blog was great news to me, and further confirmation there is nothing of substance or importance to be the slightest bit concerned about, other than the desire to reply!
On one hand I can relate to the common complaint that somehow Sadhguru is being overly optimistic and promising regarding our chance at achieving enlightenment. But personally, I would rather be told that it is entirely possible for a person to attain such a state, rather than be given all the reasons why it can't happen. I can only speak from my experience, but I feel strongly that it is very much possible for all human beings to live in an expanded state of joy and bliss. It’s a common experience in my world. So then why is it not happening for everyone at the snap of a finger, especially after the bold declaration that we are all equally capable?
What is Devotion? Shouldn't it include devotion to yourself, as well as your Guru? Even if that Guru is the person you most loathe? If you long for something with all of your being, and truly devote your life to making it happen, then clearly, wouldn’t you be willing to dedicate a thousand lifetimes to such a cause? Wouldn’t you do everything humanly possible to walk your path and earn the best shot at your chance? Of course no one can predict the time or the day, so wouldn't letting go of expectations of if or when, and just be at one with the inner knowing that eventually it will be yours? Likely there are already immense blessings in your life occurring within you in every moment if you wish to see them.
Yes, true Gurus are absolutely all about offering methods they themselves have found to be useful, and seeking such assistance is a true sign that your desire is passionately alive within you. If you are sincere in your actions, be it at the ashram, or be it at the office, doesn’t this offer you your greatest chance for such a possibility? But if you are busy pointing fingers at anyone other than yourself, it’s obviously a clear sign you have somehow lost your way, and chosen to abandon that the one in your life that matters the most, you.
Let’s face it, even the majority of the naysayers here seem to willfully admit to having learned or achieved something great and useful from their encounters with this most intelligent man. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear can clearly understand how this beautiful man stands out amongst the rest. But please, If you see yourself or someone else as a higher authority, by all means enlighten us as to these higher beings and understandings so we can all intelligently and peacefully go beyond all that limits us.
If your mission in life is to go after somebody, why not go after the countless people and organizations in the world that could truly benefit from your self-proclaimed enlightened understanding of what is serving the greater good? You will clearly know them by their disastrous actions and deeds, take your pick. But before you start there, why not first take the time to focus on applying your enlightened realizations to yourself? After all, isn’t this the true seekers path to self realization and enlightenment?

Anonymous said...

India is the country where great people like patanjali and Buddha have live-country where yoga origined ,it's essential that every person on this planed should have little bit of spiritual knowledge.

I can say only two things-People who know too many things can live the way the feel worth.

People who seek for a Guru can learn from a Guru and practice.

I took up the course one month back and regular practice of it really have awakened my consious,i am not here to comment about sadhguru-I just say what was taught to me was worth and i am enjoying it.

I thank Sadhguru for having created awareness in lot of people.

RANJIT ABRAHAM said...

I only chanced upon to hear some of the discourses of Sadhguru. I just took those statements that interested me.

To others, don't blindly follow anyone. Each of us are unique and can nver expect to get answers from any other God-man or religion. That is the beauty of human life.

So, like me, take the positives you find in others and make your life happier, peaceful and full.

Asha said...

I am not a part of Isha in anyway. I fully appreciate the hardwork our blogger has put in, to criticise what Sadhguru does or says.
Lets us first accept as sensible human beings that every aspect has multipe sides to it. Forget what the other person is doing, address what is it that YOU want to do? Except certain logics behind mathematical science, everthing else that we have as known or published knowledge is pure observation done by people which is processed through complex statistics and concluded. So why debate so much on someone else's discoveries?
Secondly, if someone knows or thinks that he knows more than us or claims to be happier than us, it doesn't makes us any unhappy. So why take offense.
Thirdly, there are a lot of people saying a lot of things about living life in a happy way. Those are their ways to peace and happiness. Each of us are not any less intellegent that we cannot discover our own ways. Its good for us to work towards our happiness whether Sadhguru's way, Ravishankar's way, Louise Hay's way, my way or your way.
We criticise when we are insecured. But why? why insecurity? We have so much fear to get out of our shells and try out something new. In addition, when we look at people around who are doing things, find faults and also find correctives for them as to how they need to do it. Please allow me to share this joke. When our own toilet has run out of water and tissue, we are sitting on the pot and telling people out side the toilet, how to use the water faucet to wash. Doesn't help us in anyway.
Lastly Iwant to quote one of the sayings by Einstein - "No knowledge is more powerful that experince".
Have a happy life ahead. Love you all. Happy Valentine's Day!

Anonymous said...

Haranjit,

A simple thot, when a spaceship flies towards space from earth - it creates vibration due to movement of its machinery, expulsion of gases or for any other reasons, that you hear as SOUND.

When the space ship is outside the limits of EARTH, the same machinery continue to work in space, gases are still expelled and as law of physics goes - the vibrations will be created, only that we havent found a way to hear them or record them.

Limitation is not in the cosmos, it is in the instruments with which we try to comprehend the cosmos. And that includes our mind and 5 senses.

Yoga or Isha helps with a way to transcend the limitations that we have imposed on our minds and able to EXPERIENCE what cannot be understood by our logical minds at this moment.

A

Christine said...

There are many ways to achieve "Liberation" and yes, the sound vibrates constantly once you reach that stage. I am not a follower of anybody. Find your own path my friend and do not get sucked in. Keep reading and learning and meditating, your life will change.

Anonymous said...

A Buddha Will Be Misunderstood ?

"Yes, it is absolutely enevitable. It can't be otherwise. A buddha is bound to be misunderstood. If a buddha is not misunderstood then he is not a buddha at all. Why is it so? because the buddha lives in a state which is beyond mind, and we live in minds. To translate something from the beyond to the mind is the most impossible thing in the world. It cant be done, although every buddha has tried to do it. That too is inevitable; no buddha can avoid it."

Harmanjit Singh said...

@anonymous, 7.23am, when you take such stuff as "beyond the mind" to be holy truths, what can another man say to you? all discussion will be in the mental realm, so what's the point?

and you must have heard this:

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 7.23: No human lives beyond the mind even if he is a lunatic he has a mind of some sort!

A Buddha is supposed to have attained mastery of the mind and its functioning. If he uses that mastery for the Good of mankind - he becomes an avatar.
If he uses it for Evil, manipulation of others for self gain(promoting an image of greatness of oneself) then he is certainly not one..........

Going beyond the mind is a state to be experienced, certainly not one that can be lived........

Anonymous said...

To Harmanjit: You ask "what is the point?"

To understand the "Whole" picture one has to soar to a height from which one can view the "Whole" picture.

This is why when Man seeks to expand his scientific knowledge he goes beyond his natural human capabilities(example uses a microscope to study a cell).


One goes to the moon wearing special gear to study it but one does not come back to earth and live in the state they would on the moon. Also, Words probably cannot describe the state completely.

So to understand the mind - he seeks to go beyond the mind.

Th understand the "Whole" will always be Man's endeavor -
That is the whole point of his existence........
That is the whole point of a pursuit of knowledge - Spiritual or Scientific.

sri said...

Harmanjith Please read this excerpt from Osho completely http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Psychic-World/ugkrishnamurti.htm .

Harmanjit Singh said...

@sri:

If by chance you come across a real master, nothing is going to fit. He is going to disrupt all your ideas about how a master should be; he is going to sabotage you. He is going to take all expectations. He is to frustrate you, he is to disappoint you in every possible way -- because that is the only way real work can start. And if you still can be with him, then... then you are going to be awakened.

I went to see a Gustafarian spiritual teacher yesterday and he was eating cow dung. Mind = blown. I was "disappointed in every possible way". He smelled, he had bad breath, he was drunk, he was rolling in his own vomit and feces, he couldn't form a coherent sentence, and so on and so forth.

But going by Osho's teachings, I realized he was a "true master" because nothing fit.

I decided to "still be with him" and I was awakened.

And in my enlightened state realized that a person named Sri needs to be more, um, mindful of accepting awesome propositions from charismatic charlatans.

'nuff said?

sri said...

@Harmanjit i didn't comment to convince you and as you said you have been enlightened, i wish u truly are and if you are dreaming still i wish u all the best, keep on exposing the so called charlatans.....

Anonymous said...

OMG!!!! If this is what "enlightened" people are like - Better not be "enlightened"...

Each one trying to pull the other "enlightened" one down - all because only one can stand on the hilltop and shout himself hoarse....

Such deluded folks land up destroying themselves - The Oshos,The mahesh's,thexxxxx...Ananadas................. ALL are bound to fall off the hilltop or be pushed off the hilltop

Enlightened people just do NOT stand on a hilltop.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous at 6:29

The enlightened ones apparently levitate. One more reason they should avoid open heights. :)

The Dervish said...

For those who insisted that the article appeared only in one magazine: The following is the Indian Express report as appearing on October 12, 1997 about Police registering a case of murder by Jaggi Vasudev:

Coimbatore, Oct, 11: Close on the heels of scandals relating to fake godmen getting exposed, yet another ashram from Coimbatore is in the limelight with Jaggi Vasudev aliash Jagadeesh of Isha Yoga ashram at Poondi near Coimbatore, being charged with the murder of his wife Viji alias Vijayakumari.A team of police personnel recently visited the premises of Isha Ashram at poondi and interrogated the inmates of the ashram. Godman Jaggi is away in the US.According to police, T. S. Ganganna of
Bangalore (father of Viji) had preferred a complaint with the Bangalore Police suspecting foul play in the death of his daughter Viji. The complaintant had stated that his daughter left him last on June 15, 1996. He reportedly received a message on January 23, 1997, from Jaggi Vasudev, stating that Viji was no more.Ganganna said that Jaggi Vasudev had hurriedly completed the cremation on Jan.24 even before they could rush from
Bangalore, raising suspicion about the nature of death. He suspected death due to poisoning or strangulation.According to him, Jaggi Vasudev could have caused the death of Viji to facilitate his illicit relationship with yet another inmate of the ashram. Based on the complaint of Ganganna to the Bangalore City Police on Aug. 12, a case was registered.The Bangalore City Police transferred it to the Coimbatore Rural Police.The Coimbatore Rural Police have registered a case against Jaggi Vasudev under Section 302 of IPC (murder) and IPC 201 (suppression of evidence).Later. Isa Yoga Foundatrion has denied reports that Jaggi Vasudev had fled to
USA to avoid investigation of ashram. Authorised Signatory of Ashram Kiran stated that Guruji had gone for giving lectures . ENS