Monday, October 01, 2007

Sadhguru's lineage?

Found this at one of rickross.com forums:
A significant number of people (including me) were drawn to dubious gurus for seemingly innocuous things like yoga and meditation. Before we realize what is happening we are drawn deep into their practices and we begin to lose our logic and rationality. I wish I had known to do background checks into sadhgurus and gurus. The first 'guru' we got involved in the United States is 'Sadhguru' Jaggi Vasudev. Calls himself self Enlightened and teaches pranayam and meditation. Anyone attending his 'free' intro class would be struck by his logic, eloquence and seemingly friendly way in which he conducts his into class. All the other stuff comes later by which time it might be too late. Anyone encountering altered states of consciousness, hysterical laughing, crying etc., on the first day would flee the place. But the progressive way in which you are exposed to this makes every one of these appear natural and normal. Too late did I come to know that this Enlightened yogi was trained by Rishi Prabhakar, founder of SSY, who himself was a disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Werner Erhard.
For more information, one can refer to Rishi Prabhakar, Cult Information on Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Werner Erhard and his legacy The Landmark Forum (wikipedia article on the Landmark Forum).

40 comments:

GuruTruth said...

A most interesting post, thank you for sharing this.

I knew he had trained under a "Guru" himself, but I did not know that Werner Erhard had disciples who were "Guru" teachers of others.

Interesting info if you are interested at my blog:
Large Group Awareness Training truth

Anonymous said...

do u have more info on him as to where and when he was trained....

harmanjit said...

It is a symptom of spiritual dishonesty that questions about one's past are usually evaded. Look at the following Q&A from the book "Mystic's Musings":

QUESTION: Sadhguru, can you tell me a little about yourself? From what
lineage or tradition do you come?

VASUDEV: Fundamentally, I don’t come from any particular tradition as such. It is from inner experience that I come. But, if I look at it now, I’m a part of every
tradition in the world . whatever the traditions have become over a period of time, that’s different. When I look at the source of all traditions, all traditions have
started the way I have started. It cannot be any different. Whether it is this religion, or that religion, or Tao, or Zen, or yoga, whatever-it all comes from the
same source of an inner experience-when a person experiences the unity within
himself. So, in a way, I belong to all traditions, while I don’t belong to any
because the presentation is unique.

Anonymous said...

http://www.rickross.com/reference/est/estpt8.html

The above is exactly what is being happening in Inner engineering..

Anonymous said...

Reading the interview here is a Q&A that seems to reflect how the man tends to obfuscate and gloss over facts. I am just quoting a portion of the question and the relevant answer from Sadhguru:

Q:And in your interview with Kavita, you say about Islam, how somewhere along the line someone usurped the Faith and did not allow it to evolve! Anyone with a conscience would acknowledge that the Faith had its origins in violence, grew through violence and exists through violence. Ironically most of our friends are Moslems, but know that a good Moslem is one who does not follow his faith, for anyone who follows it both in word and spirit is required to annihilate ’kaffirs’. –Name withheld on request

A:As far as Islam is concerned, we don’t know for sure what Islam really said in the original version. All we hear today has been versions of others. These days it is not one religion but most major religions unfortunately, who feel that it has to be their way or no way, except may be for the eastern religions. Whenever any religion feels its their way or no way, violence will happen. Why single out Islam?

Anonymous said...

whats wrong with that answer?.. or rather what answer did you expect to hear?

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

whats wrong with that answer?.. or rather what answer did you expect to hear?"

The questioner mentioned "the Faith had its origins in violence, grew through violence and exists through violence." for which Sadhguru mentions that no does not know what Islam really said in the original version. He then goes on to a tu quo argument that most major religions are that way. What he fails to mention is that most religions have evolved to a point where they have shed their initial violent beginning (if they even had one) and live in harmony with society for the most part.

Anonymous said...

neither did I understand your answer on this.

Anonymous said...

What ever you or someone else cannot understand, how do you justify terming it as Cult.

I found the Rickross forum to be more of a Cult than any of these ppl who u have mentioned.

Anonymous said...

and to add to all those above, do you know that Brainwashing and mind control are a debunked theory now, if you know how to use Google, please use it and read them before you can dissect something.

Research, learn and get to know the complete facts before you can write on some theory or someone as Cult.

knverma said...

Theories may have been proposed and debunked, abuse reports are not debunked.

Landmark Education seems to be arguing about terminology. One of its critics, Margaret Singer considered the group as dangerous but confirmed, in connection with some lawsuit,that she has never used the term "cult" for it. Landmark Education flaunts such statements as endorsements.

Anonymous said...

i agree, and i dont know anything about Landmark Edu, but i know Isha,

forget about knowing Isha, reading the Est and seeing Isha,

The main theme is that happiness is within, dont search it outside and many more on similar lines,

the fact that i dont understand is, how can any organisation become CULT when they just teach something at is positive and makes life better, and that very fact thats within everybody is just opened up and shown to you.

Anonymous said...

A "group" becomes a "cult" when there is an unreasonable amount of control. A teaching is just a teaching. It can bring pleasure or pain. Especially, when there is emphasis on "trusting your mentor," there exists the highest ethical responsibility for that mentor. I could tell you that happiness is within you, tell you that the path is to perform such and such actions & lifestyle changes, tell you to trust me, tell you that I am from such and such lineage or have such and such qualifications, make you attend such and such events and/or pay such and such monies for access to such and such wisdom, tell you you're almost there, make you work, keep making you work for it, make you attend more events and pay for more and more knowledge, keep telling you you're almost there, keep taking your money and/or labor through volunteerism, make an unbelievable pampered living for myself, make you completely unaware of this, leave you a husk, and one day - when you've discovered the sham, make you wish you'd never heard of me. That's a cult. Cults are ALWAYS some variation of this, and are ALWAYS the twisting of a message that is fundamentally positive. It takes ONE bastard at the top to enslave many good people below.

Anonymous said...

I have expereinced Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev. SJV has so many times mentioned that in this life time he had no guru and has mentioned about his guru who had graced in previous life time. Where did U pick up this information that he was trained bu Rishi Prabhakar. This is a unfair and untrue statenment.
About the cult and other matters mentioned all I would like to say that SJV
a) Does not give any teachings but only some methods.
b) he himself exhorts that U do not have any believe in any thing which is not in your realm of experience.But have a open mind for any posibilities.
c) Often says that use the tools kriyas and meditation given. If it works for you continue to use it else discard it. It is a fair deal. Nothing more is asked for

On the Kavitha Chibber interview it is a quite clear that Religion only offer belief systems and can at best offer solace. Only in rare cases it helps in experiencing the truth . Violence erupts as it becomes a fight between belief systems. Christanity has also gone through this (crusades, spanish inquisitions etc.) Only eastern religions like Buddhisim or Hindu Culture where emphasis was more than giving tools for one's spirtual evolution rater than thrusting belief sytsems have escaped. (Today even the virulent form of Hindu culture seems to have fallen into this trap.)

Any guru has to be experinced in a deep way before we comment. Guru thrashing of course is a fashonable hobby to indulge in.

srid said...

I'd agree with the above comment regarding a veritable citation of Sadhguru having had trained by Rishi Prabhakar. It could only strengthen the wikipedia article's citation.

all-one-humanity said...

Cult or not? that's nothing simple that really can be sorted out in debate through a blog. but you are making associations that really are not verified... and, I'd like to at least round-out the heresay a bit, Sadhguru HAS said many times openly that he trained with a yogi as a boy. He practiced at least hatha yoga under the tutelage of Mallahadi Swami. (I hope I spelled that correctly.) He does not seem to consider him his guru, however, he does appear to have a great deal of respect and admiration for him in the stories that he has told about him from his experiences growing up.

This Q&A taken from Mystic's Musings is taken out of context. Sadhguru has several times in my own presence mentioned his guru... he was not "famous" or known to the public...actually most yogis, it seems, are not. He has said he knew him for only the brief time in which he was enlightened by him. He does not commonly speak of him it seems out of deep respect and admiration for him.

Leaving the debate of Sadhguru and his lineage aside for a moment, I will offer my own experience... let's take the "fruits" of the "system", which your own website points to as one of the best ways to determine harmful behavior. If the fruits of the practice Sadhguru teaches are any indicator, from my own personal experience of practicing daily kriya and meditation for only 5 years--i have never felt more free within myself, more responsible for myself and others, more accepting and loving of those around, more capable, mentally clear, and emotionally balanced.

My physical health too is skyrocketing--I feel better than I did at 20. No one is depriving me of sleep. I only NEED 4-5 hours of sleep because I wake up easily feeling buoyant and well-rested by 4 or 5am. Even my doctor could concur--he was amazed at my low blood pressure, slow pulse rate, excellent blood work... Actually, I haven't seen him again in 4 years. In fact, I've really only had one head cold in the last 3 years.

Please be careful how you speak before you have all the information, about gurus or otherwise. Probably there are some really crazy systems out there tearing up peoples' lives--even main stream religion has done so much mental/emotional damage to several I've known.

There is so much life value to be gained from the very few who are teaching the ancient yogic practice really well. Please refrain from making flip judgments with incomplete and unverified information.

Anonymous said...

This last post... I am curious as to how deep the involvement is. It's possible that the group is healthy up to a particular level of involvement. For example, I have a friend who's moved to India to follow Isha and am wondering if her experience is different.

Anonymous said...

http://www.dhyanalinga.org/scienceofdhyanalinga.htm

what about "sadh"guru's selling the superstitions in the name of science?

what about the solidified mercury in room temperature? As per my limited knowledge in chemistry, the melting point of it is -40 deg Celsius.If the guru can give the methods by which he solidify the sivalinga for his "non-religious" cult ashram , I hope it will be a turning point in chemistry, and alchemy-stry .

Anonymous said...

"and to add to all those above, do you know that Brainwashing and mind control are a debunked theory now, if you know how to use Google, please use it and read them before you can dissect something."

Riiiight. I wonder why the private sector has paid billions to learn how to 'brainwash' and control the minds of the lower masses? All research privately funded and owned (never to be released to the public) on how to manipulate the masses. Used for propaganda, marketing and dumbing down the masses.

Yes, there are billions being spent to study how to control you and you are not allowed to see the results.

Of course they want you to believe mind control isn't real.

Pragyan said...

"Before we realize what is happening we are drawn deep into their practices and we begin to lose our logic and rationality."

Dude to begin with ... do you know wht spirituality really is?

If u dont know it - it is nothing close to a rational process.

Ofcourse you should nt have done his practices. I am glad that you realized soon enough that it is not for you.

You guessed it right - spirituality is 100% about losing 100% of ur logic. When you do that u become enlightened. You didnt knew that and ur making an ass of urself by sayin some1 is trying to make u enlightened by making u lose ur logic.

Please stay away from things u dont understand or cannot handle.


READ THIS -

http://www.newbrainnewworld.com/?Science_of_Awakening

Anonymous said...

I did Isha Yoga for many years. And during that time, I've never been more tired, irritable and moody. I gave it up and I feel GREAT!

There were many other devotees that I talked with over the years that told me they had similar problems. But leaving a guru cult is not an easy thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha

This is how conflicts start and become violance.

Here, there is one who is experienced and the other one is only trying guessing it using whatever stuff he has in mind.

My dear "agaist one" why don't you taste sugar and find out how it is really.

I believe, both of you parties are trying to save innocent people from being misguided. That's the wonderful thing to do. So, I respect you both.

The one with experience has tasted the sugar and knows its test. What other says about it, he doesn't really care.

Its your turn to taste it and if you find it some other way, then go into such discussions. Won't it be rational to do so. If you are really interested in this topic, lets do it with experience and not with information.

I love you all out there.

Ha Ha Ha

dr.music said...

sounds cool... laughs at himself...likes bikes... not one crude comment .... no money asked for.... very cool..... he's fine.... plants trees... doesn't know that islam is a cult...he's still learning... all that chemistry bull and some other crap said doesn't have to be taken literally like the 70,000 naddiees....ignore all that ...leave all that alone... any one who encourages ecology and empowering women and being cool gets my vote.... i think i'll sign up ...not giving any money ...just muscle and mind power...let's see how it goes....

Raviji said...

the arguments and counter arguments about Jaggi and his life are interesting. One fact I wish to share is we both got trained by Guruji Rishi Prabhakar in the years 1984-86. e both took SSY teachers training together in Gommatagiiri near Mysore. We did SSY classes together and westarted the Hyderabad center of Rishi Samskruti Vidya Kendra under Guruji. then he was sent by Guruji Rishi Prabhakar to Coimbatore to start center there. there he slowly left the organization and started his own. He renamed himself as Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev and became popular.
His Guru Rishi Prbhakar will not cclaim him to be his student as Jaggi has not lived upto his word.
there is no secrecy in these matters. Jaggi himself will accept it(I still believe he is truthful).
I have not contacted him so far after he left Guruji Rishi Prabhakar.

Anonymous said...

How did you come to know that he was a student of Rishi Prabhakar? Why haven't you mentioned how you came to know about this. How can you be certain that it was from a reliable source. Maybe this person bluffed you.
Please write in detail about how you made this discovery or else it'll just be one person's word against another.
Thank you.













founder of SSY, who himself was a disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Werner Erhard.

Dharma said...

Is it the real Raviji? I did SSY course when I was 14. I met you several times. I did Inner Engineering course 2 years back. I am 22 now. Is Sadhguru really the pupil of Rishi Prabhakar?? Sad that a truly honest and transparent organisation like SSY could not even survive for a considerable period. May be for such teachings to survive in today's world, organisations should be like Isha or Art of Living.

Anirudha said...

How does it matter who Sadhguru's guru is or was? Everytime you take a crocin for a headache do you ponder about its chemistry and which factor it was made and how? You take it once, if it doesnt work you dont take it. That is all Sadhguru asks for...do a 21 minute breathing exercise for a year, if you dont feel any different, stop doing it. he isnt asking for your life, he is asking you to breathe for 21 minutes of the day with consciousness. I have done the IE course and also went for a 4 day course to Coimbatore. That cost me Rs2500, so clearly it was not something I had to sell my soul for, considering it cinluded food and accomodation. All in all, I do not know what is the point you are making? If Sadhguru is cheating someone, then that person will realise and stop. If its just a placebo effect, thats good enough isnt it? If it actually works, thats brilliant. I am not sure about the agenda of trying to question who he trained with etc, because that really has no relevance to anything. Unless of course you are insinutating criminal conduct, in which case you had better contact the authorities else you would be guilty by omission isnt it?

Anonymous said...

I am an Isha meditator who has experienced "altered states of consciousness, hysterical laughter, crying", while in the presence of Sadhguru. Why does society judge such behavior in a spiritual context, while accepting it in the dance club, movie theater, bar, etc? Every experience I have had with Sadhguru has led to increased joy, energy, and peace. What looks like extreme, even convulsive, bodily activity feels like a cleansing when it is happening to me. I have never felt out of control or brainwashed at Isha; my practices have led to clarity of mind and allowed me to go off of antidepressants. Please do not judge what you have not experienced, and thus cannot understand.

theraji said...

No doubt Jaggi is a Guru for Yoga Brahma Rishi Prabhakarji is the only Guru in this world who created Gurus not Sishyas. I am one of them. Had I not been with Guruji I would have been drowned in maya.

Vedabhoomi

Shiv said...

Dear friends,

In some of the columns they said solidification of mercury is turning point in history. please note there are lots of referances to solidification of mercury in ancient texts and solid mercury is sold in chennai, india at kuralagam handicrafts showroom owned and operated by government of tamilnadu.

Also please note that there is no cure for jaundice in allopathic/ english medicine as we refer to all the modern medical practices. but Jaundice is routinely cured with just three days of medication and various parts of India at less than 3 USD total cost.

Anonymous said...

The person who wrote the entry at the top of this page that begins "A significant number of people..." has described my exact experience with this 'guru'. As the writer astutely states, Jaggi knows that if he were to invoke on the first day the hysteria that comes later in the 'program' people would immediately flee. I know I would have.
Some have said that persons like me are shocked by these hysterical behaviors only because we come from a Western background. Not always so. I am 50 and have been practicing and studying since I was 13. These years of spiritual learning have given me a more objective understanding of the difference between those who teach and those who use psychological methods that prey on 'group mentality'. Jaggi practices the latter.
After the day of 'hysteria' (around day 5 or 6), I left the 13-day program. One of his assistants called me the next day and said that Jaggi was greatly concerned for me. She reminded me that Jaggi had stated on the first day that if one leaves in the middle of the program one will be in a very confused state and might even risk insanity. Well, I can tell you that I am fine and happy, and -- looking back -- the only insanity I see is the one that would now have had I stayed for the rest of the program.
Isn't it so? LOL

Anonymous said...

I am an Isha meditator since 5 years. In these five years everything about me changed for better. Better health, happier, calmer and more human. The best way to decide about a guru is to see if he made a positive change in your life. Rest are not important - where he trained, what be did etc. If you sit with million questions in front of a guru, you will come out with two million doubts. Unless you surrender, you will not get anywhere. I can never imagine a life without isha.

truthn Light said...

It seems Mr Jagadish Vasudev aka Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev aka Jaggi has been accused by his own father in law of killing his daughter (Sadhguru jaggi's wife) Vijji aka Mrs Vijaya kumari either by strangulation or by poisoning, in 1997. Mrs Vijaya Kumari was 31 years old then with a 6 year old daughter . Jaggi has escaped saying that she went into mahasamadhi. (Now, which court accepts mahasamadhi and acquits a murderer?).

Mr. Jagadish cremated the body of his wife on the next day itself, hence no autopsy could be performed. Before marrying Jagadish vasudev, Vijaya kumari was working in a bank and was previously married to someone else. After her death, another woman who was involved with them (in the tri-vortex of energy needed to consecrate the so -called dhyanalinga), a certain Mrs. Bharathi divorced her husband and came to live with Mr. Jagadish vasudev.

Mr. Jagadish vasudev has a daughter named Radhe, who is a dancer and she is married to a classical singer and is living a normal, luxurious life in Chennai and the USA, whereas most young women and men in the ashram live as unpaid slave labour, just on 2 meals a day and 3 sets of clothes and hard work to produce products and money for his so called Isha foundation, which many say is just an excuse to get tax exempt status in India and the USA for all ashram activities and businesses. Isha foundation doesnt seem to work much as it is advertised.

Mr Jagadish Vasudev once said that children who go to govt. schools are walking 4 km per day and giving the bus charges (7rs/ day) to the ashram and that they are very commendable.
Also, while he asks people to live frugally, and donate to the ashram, he and his daughter, and Bharathi etc live very luxuriously and Jaggi has bought himself a landrover, a landcruiser and a hummer apart from other things. He advises people not to drink coffee, but he himself drinks folgers coffee and is seen at starbucks. His family members (daughter, son in law etc ) go to movies, malls, foreign vacations, and drink coffee and hang out with friends along with their latest i-phones as normal people do. It seems that Mr. Jgadish vasudev is keeping them in "miserable" luxuries while the ashramites are enjoying sublime "spiritual" bliss in bare frugality.

He has once said that 3 things should never be commercialized...education, health care and spirituality. He is commercializing all the three as - a) isha home school charges around 6 lakh per annum, b) isha arogya (medicine) products are sold through isha stores and c) inner engineering and all other programs (spirituality) are also being sold to the masses.

He is good with words, but he himself never practices what he speaks. Some people who want to come out of the ashram are threatened from leaving saying that their spiritual progress will be stopped and that they will also affect the lives of many people around them...or something like that. Anyways most of them are in a kind of hypnotic delusional state where they worship their master since he is offering them something intangible like enlightenment, and they believe all the lies he continuously says and defend him and the organization to the best of their abilities.

You can read more on sadhguru jaggi vasudev aka sjv on guruphiliac forums written by ex ishaites. They say that few people were found dead at both his ashrams in India and the US.

Anonymous said...

A rational man must, when confronted by a teaching that is otherwise foreign in its substance, take caution in its validity sole on logical grounds, and not, as authoritative figures like, on ethos; for that, in and of itself, implies that the authority is perfect when, in fact, since a man is behind it, and all men, in their hearts, are oriented towards acruing wealth, men are not perfect. And when we do that, on objective bases, we can filter out the marketing jargon. On this, Sadhguru is an intelligent man.

Anonymous said...

Little minds always think no one can know more than them,so you keep arguing, wasting time
because there is nothing other than the material world in your experience.

Surya said...

Namaskaram, Actually it is not new for anyone in this world that if any good things happen, there will be always someone to stop them to grow..
I am also an isha meditator..
My experiences are great with isha..
Before isha i was like an idiot and cruel towards people around me..
But after joining isha with in just 2 or 3 months itself I transformed myself like happy machine..!!
I am enjoying my every moment now and people around me by just observing my transformation they also themselves got into isha and they also started experiencing isha..!
I dont care that my guru is a murderer or a business man or something else..
Without spending more than 5k₹ itself i got transformed.. Now i feel great and happy
That's all i want.. Plese don't believe which is completely non sense.. Everyone have their own freedom to choose what they want.. Dont try to mis guide..
Pranam

luvguru said...

@Surya I have one question ?
You said, "Without spending more than 5k₹ itself i got transformed"
Why the hell anyone needs to spend a penny to get enlightened / transformed.
What $$ has to do with enlightenment and transformation ??
Why these GURU needs Huge ASHRAMS in Foreign Countries ?? to connect with the people.

They can have non-profit seminars/ Workshops time to time when needed

The technologies are so advanced. They can connect with people through internet. ex Youtube if they are real gurus.

He knows nothing he does nothing he all he does is FOOL people. Some people have a gift that they can manipulate people with their sweet talks in the name of GOD. HE does the same CRAP.

He laughs like a ASSHOLE every time he is giving confusing answers to ppl. He is just brain washing innocents mind. He is a CON man with deceptive motives to gain guess what? the world most powerful thing "MON$Y" Understood??

Anonymous said...

You people are utter fools. Fighting over person is authentic or not. His damn tools work. That is what matters. When your favourite fast food chains mess your well being it's not a concern. But one person is offering some tools which are very much effective and working. What you or me has to do with the person?. Learn damn thing and practice it every day. It's been miracle in my life. And it hasn't led me to become devotee of him or his foundation. It's your fault if you are searching your God in him and get disappointed. Now if he lies or not, is he fake or not don't really matter. Have u made use of what being offered by him and made your life better or not that's a question. With my personal experience, it works like charm. I took 7 different yoga programs before trying out Isha. And by far it is the most classical and working form of yoga.

Beena said...

For any person to comment on a subject, it is necessary that he or she study it thoroughly, experience the essence and then comment upon it.
All these naysayers are hardly attempting to do anything near to it. In the bargain they lose a wonderful opportunity to explore one's inner self. Ag whose cost. Their own. It is futile to even make an attempt towards asking such persons to follow the logic of researching a subject before attempting a critical appreciation.
Sadhguru has nothing to lose. But these should have to trudge lifetimes to achieve what they ultimately will, according to Law of Nature.
Wisdom would have been, in accessing the knowledge of Saint and realised masters, such as Sadhguru.

luvguru said...

@BEENA

I know well about the subject you are referring to.

I find it funny when people talk about exploring inner self when they do not know what they are talking about and that to in the influence of their fancy fraud Gurus.

They even do not know the purpose of their exploration, They want to experience Joy, immense pleasure a WOW experience.. !! LOL... or maybe experiencing GOD!! ..LOL and you be enlightened and be proud of it.. LOL and Your GOD knows what you would do after that.. LOL

You have found SADHGURU than one day maybe you would find someone else and the foolishness of your egoistic inquiring mind continue like this.

GOOD LUCK funding those fancy GURUS!!

@BEENA
But these should have to trudge lifetimes to achieve what they ultimately will, according to Law of Nature.
Wisdom would have been, in accessing the knowledge of Saint and realised masters, such as Sadhguru.


That's tooo cliché and funny!!