Tuesday, July 05, 2005

Spiritual teachers

To each his own (spiritual teacher).

There are spiritual teachers who are genuinely deluded (i.e. who are enlightened) and there are those who wear a mask of wisdom.

In the first category come the great sages like the Buddha, Nanak, Christ, and (more recently) Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharishi, Krishnamurti and Osho.

They are not after building a following, or for amassing wealth.
They genuinely believe that they have a message for the benighted humanity and spend their whole lives in guiding seekers to the illusory kingdom of heaven.

In the second category there is a multitude: all the priests and preachers, money-minded saints and the fraudsters, tricksters, molesters and the political saints. Some of these are very suave and intelligent.

Current examples: Sai Baba, Asaram Bapu, Sudhanshu ji Maharaj, Maa Amritananda Mayi, Deepak Chopra, Benny Hinn, Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev, Kanchi Sankaracharya, the Pope, and so on...

There is a third category: of deluded egoist folks who think they are quite evolved and many people indeed take them to be enlightened but they fall short of the highest standards in this sphere.

Examples are Swami Vivekananda, UG Krishnamurti, John de Ruiter, Adi da Samraj, Srila Prabhupada, S N Goenka etc.

Most non-serious seekers fall into the trap of the tricksters. Most serious seekers get stuck in the third category. The lucky few find a first category teacher.

It is comparatively easy to break free of a second or third category teacher, one can find the truth about them soon enough and get tired of them, but it is extremely difficult to break free of a first category teacher because he truly believes himself to be God (or a messenger of God).

The first category teachers inspire generations of seekers to give up everything in their search for truth.

As people get disenchanted with the material pursuits and the associated stresses, spiritual salvation seems the only alternative. It takes many years for one to traverse the terrain. The rare few who become enlightened or think they have evolved enough become evangelists or teachers themselves.

The others, who cannot break through, either become bitter or resigned to their lot. Some of them think that maybe in the next life they will achieve the breakthrough.

It takes a lot of energy to go on a quest about life. Repeated failures drain one's energy. But one must not give up. Even if it means dumping spirituality as a whole into the dustbin and starting afresh.

44 comments:

The Librarian said...

It would help to substantiate your skepticism of the first category of teacher. Without the reasoning, the post leads to the same symptom that Sanjay identified as the result of a conversation with Krishnamurthi. "He demolishes all your beliefs, but does not offer anything to replace them"

harmanjit said...

To understand why spiritual enlightenment is a delusion, you
might want to surf the Actual
Freedom website: www.actualfreedom.com.au

harmanjit said...

However, living without emotional beliefs is not exactly a problem, as you make it out to be. Krishnamurti was disingenuous in that he seemed to be against spiritual enlightenment and spiritual evolution but he was himself a spiritual teacher through and through. One of the very best teachers ever to teach transcendence and egolessness, I might add.

Yaggie said...

I agree with you about lots of things regarding spirituality & spiritual teachers. Check out my blog, I think you would enjoy it.

Yaggie said...

Thanks for the comment and link. It's bit strange though to say that someone is heavily influenced by J.K as his whole message was just to make people observe their mind. I surely can't see anything wrong with that kind of teaching.

I checked out that website which you gave me but it takes quite a while to find what are you referring to. Feel free to send me email at manninha@netti.fi if you want to discuss more.

Hari patel said...

Well harmanjit good post, but i would suggest one more category of gurus which are under conman, fraudsters.

I would like to bring your attention on an ironic situation of exploitation of Hindu religion for personal benefit by a self
called God. He calls himself a Godman but i spent a week in his ashram because i have had friends relatives who had lost their family members in this cult. So i decided to help them out and find out what is the real story behind this godman. We are Hindu ourselves and are very religious this is why i was able to see the difference when i joined this religious cult. There are number of good Guru's , Acharya's , Saint's in india.
Most of them live a very simple life and have no attachments to materialistic things in life.
But there are some of them who became very popular due to evolution of TV growth in India.
I am going to mention only one which is Asaram Bapu with whom i have personal experience with and may be some of you can learn and save others and help them not ruin their lifes.

You can ask any of the fanatic sewadaars who are living inside the ashram. Same tactics are used to them also who took gurudiksha and left their homes. You are required to commit yourself exclusively to asaram, one teaching, or one belief–or you are denied the privilege of receiving the Light from your Master, entering the presence of the Master or going to spiritual meetings of this group, or receiving teachings. In addition to withholding spiritual benefits, you are threatened by terrible consequences: hell, transmigration, or denial of entrance to the path for incalculable amounts of time. You feel compelled to do what you're told because you don't want to lose the Master's blessings and Grace, or experience the suffering of the consequences. This ultimatum forces you into believing there are only two alternatives, when in fact there are many.
Your human life is a terrible thing to waste in pursuit of a spiritual dead end. Worse is to suffer abuse at the hands of a mentally ill spiritual leader asaram bapu.

Asaram bapu has numerous court cases in Delhi and several other part of cities for forgery ,420 and lot more, you can check form your local court also and I am sure you will find some in your city too. He has manipulated lot of his disciples and taken houses of so many devotees and later when disciple came to know they have taken him in court and won their property back form this con man.


In his teachings which he gives to his sewadaars he forgot to mention god and 99 % of times all prayers are to Guru and he makes you forget god and all you do is serve guru now. Please ask your friends and family to ask others and respond to this message if any of your neighbours or friends ahve also left thier house and family and became asaram chela. And you will find plenty of cases , just imagine what happens to the families who are affected due to the brain wash of their family members, they spend whole thier lifes begging asaram to leave their sons daughters but he has no mercy becuase he is greedy and his mission is to grab what he can from who he can.


Ask these questions to the follower of asaram bapu who is living in the ashram ::
How much of the time are you asked to remain in union with your spiritual essence? Are you asked to continually meditate or pray?"
Do you still have regular contact with your family and friends that you had before you joined the asaram bapu? Does the asaram bapu ask you to cut your ties with your family and friends because the are worldly or deluded?
Would you say that your spiritual aspirations and your desire to follow Asaram Bapu and to advance Asaram Bapu’s mission has become very important to you now? Do you still pursue your personal goals and dreams that you had before you joined the group?

you will get shocking answers to the above questions. By giving you a prescript answers they brainwashed to people who joined his ashram. You went to improve your life and health by spirituality but now you will be a slave working in ashram. But now they implanted in your mind your friends and family are materialistic people so now you live in ashram and serve guru. You are given chanting and mantras in most of them what you do is pray the guru instead of god.



When you meet the friendliest people you have ever known, who introduce you to the most loving group of people you’ve ever encountered, and you find the leader to be the most inspired, caring, compassionate and understanding person you’ve ever met, and then you learn that the cause of the group is something you never dared hope could be accomplished, and if all of this sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true! Don’t give up your education, your family, your hope and ambitions to follow a rainbow. Be aware of asaram bapu and make sure to help a victim and save his life from asaram's nazism.

saurabh said...

Was just trying to search about asaram bapu on google,and eventually came across your blog,i do not know why you are hysterical about our saints,starting from vivekanand and upto asaram you have spared nonone apart from some exceptions like that of OSHO.

Now it is a well known fact that osho died of AIDS,and i feel that it was a befitting death for a person who taught the world "sambhog se samadhi".What a great fraudster he was.

I do not know what is going on inside the ashrams of these gurus but personally i feel i have not lost anything rather gained too much by attending to pravachans of these saints.

In india we are more than happy to embrace film stars,sportsman,tatas,ambanis when in fact personally we are getting nothing from them.whereas i say that even if these people(gurus etc.) are amassing a huge wealth but teaching lessons of spirituality and a haelthy life ,we should see the positive side of it,and try to gain from it.

I will be back,there is much to share.

harmanjit said...

If you see my post as a hysterical
outburst, that is certainly your choice. But hysteria is a well defined term meaning uncontrollable outbursts in speech, motor functions and agitation.

Whether Osho died of AIDS is not a
well known fact, it is a speculative suggestion. Some people say he died of morphine overdose.

However, your gloating at the way
Osho died betrays your hatred and
intolerance for him. Is that intolerance the outcome of your religious experiences with varied Indian saints?

Since you do not know (as claimed)
what is going on inside the ashrams of these gurus, I would suggest you take a closer look at both their personal lives and their religious teachings.

As for embracing even fraud gurus because they are repeating the age-hold religious and spiritual truths, it might be instructive to investigate whether the degradation in the Indian society is because of our religious tendencies or inspite of them.

Your comments are very welcome.

My email address is harmanjitsingh at yahoo if you would like to communicate in private.

mahesh said...

hey harmanjit, by name u seems to be a sardar(whatever). if u don't know anything about saints, hindu culture, spirituality then don't write such type of things for any of them no matter that these people are fraud or not. u must say thank to god that u are born in india and u are given freedom to write whatever junk is there in your mind. had u been born in any of islamic or christian country , those people must cut your hands for writing, cut your tounge for speaking, and much more u can't even expect.

if you still have anything to say then mail to me at

mahesh_verma1983@yahoo.co.in

hkmehta said...

i am deeply distressed by the slanderous remarks made by hari patel about H.H Aasaramji bapu.there are millions of followers of H.H Asaramji Bapu the world over. and it is the overwhelming experience of all the devotees of Aasramji Bapu that they experienced supernal peace and tranquility in bapuji's presence.a person making such denigrating comments about bapuji needs to get himself examined by a psychiatric.

Sajjan said...

I am a proud follower of H.H. Shri Asaramji Bapu. Probably I am wasting my time now to console an i. box who has been carried away by his own mind-sets. I have all the answers for the questions asked by a patel who himself does not know what he is upto, so I don't feelm like answering them. But would like to let him know if that was the case he projected about the Holy Saint, probably I would not have been posting this mail but puting Chara to cows in the asharam. Hence I have a best suggestion to ponder over the answer given by a Maulvi in Pakistan when asked about " What Is Islam", he said,"I don't know much but you read the Holy Koran and you will become a Muslim, this much I know". So dear dispaired atma please go to a Guru and enjoy the Bliss. God bless you.

Anonymous said...

Hello,

Hope you all are doing well in your endavour.

I have one suggestion for you guys.

1) Please do not insults any spiritual gurus of India - It is only because of their restless effort that we Indian hope for a better future not only for Indian but for global human beings.

My oppinion on the thougts shared on this post :

As you all might know that to acheive any sucess in worthless wordly thing also we really need to work hard with consitency so to gain spiritual power you could imagine how hard it would be, since these powers that you acheive by doing nothing, just meditating deep inside your true self and after years and years of consistent and persistent hard work ultimately the yogis / brahmagyani get the taste of that ultimate true self.

Human being who wish to fine satisfaction and enjoyment outside in the worldy affairs and comodity have really no idea what that experience is.

you have spended so much time writing on our great saints - just try one small thing

sit alone folding your legs on the floor for just 30min and you will get the felling how hard it is to sit calm and do nothing.

If you fail to acheive 30min of continous meditation : please read this book http://www.ashram.org/satsang_eng/eternal_youth/contents.html
from this website and then try to do the same and share your experience.

Please find the sloak which reformed Tulsidas life.

Hard mass ki deh mamm, ya mein itni priti, yame aadi jo ram prati to mite bhav bhiti.

Hope this helps.

Hariom

harmanjit said...

It is only due to the spiritual gurus that Indians fail to give primary importance to life here on earth and instead waste their time on achieving a delusory great state (beyond life
and death) after they die.

And to give you an idea of where I am coming from, I have spent close to ten years in intense spiritual pursuits, with four years devoted full time to the practice of meditation under the guidance of an enlightened master. I have eight
Vipassana retreats (which involve
more than 12 hours of sitting silently and meditating every day).

My criticism of Gurus and holy men is based on my personal experience with them and my own excursions in spirituality.

You might like to visit http://www.actualfreedom.com.au for a thorough discussion on why spiritual enlightenment fails to deliver the goods.

Regards,
Harman.

Anonymous said...

Hey harmanjit,
If you are saying that the saints are spoiling the precious time then what the cricket and the films are doing in our country. What the politicians are doing in our country. If you dont believe then please not come but you have definitely no right to tell anything about the saints.You might have very well known that in each era including buddha, nanakdev, kabirji every saint had been defamed but it doesnt mean that all the talks of enlightenment are fake. You should know the principle of universe that if there is no truth the things can not last longer. if u think that vedant is fake then why it is running and becoming more popular in the western world. i am now living in the USA and i compare myself with the people living here and I find myself much enriched then them just because of my values from the India.If you havent gone to moon it doesnt mean that noone has gone there.you have talked about asaram bapu. Ihave heard him from my childhood he never soid any disgrace things to the followers. he never asked us for money or materials on the contrary he always said us dont put any money this is my guru dakshina.

nearfar said...

> I have spent close to ten years
> in intense spiritual pursuits,
> with four years devoted full time
> to the practice of meditation
> under the guidance of an
> enlightened master. I have eight
> Vipassana retreats (which involve
> more than 12 hours of sitting
> silently and meditating every
> day).

Just wondering, may I ask what you were "actually" pursuing during your _intense_ spiritual pursuits? Wisdom or hallucinations?

Anonymous said...

I was searching in google about asaram ji bapu's links and came across this one. I was appalled by the remarks made by harmanjit and others who criticize the saints in India.I think you all who criticize are under a very wrong notion , u do not know what r u blabbering my writing against the saints.
Remember if you dont know about how great our saints like asaram bapuji are, atleast dont comment .But stop this stupid nonsense thinking of yours.There is a saying
sant ki ninda teeno jaya dhan maan aur vansh.

Ravi said...

Asara Bapu is a fraud.
He has number of cases against him in Delhi High court.
He has manipulated number of people from wealthy families to eave their homes and live in his Ahmedbad ashram.
People who leave there family are made to pray to him as a god.
His son Narayan swami is a womaniser, who also now calls himself as god.
He spent 9 crores of rupees in his daughters marriage.
His links with a Jeweller are well publicized with income tax raids on jeweler in Delhi.
He has brainwashed lot of people and has grabbed their properties.
He is same like DIDI who got murdered Trivedi and he also speaks like Swadhyay parivar.
His inner circle says he said same thing like did you can kill anyone for the asaram bapu trust.
He will be next in the news soon, Becuase he has ruined numerous lifes, and has number of eople wrking for him as slaves and treating as god becuase they are hypntized by him.

Ravi said...

Asara Bapu is a fraud.
He has made millions of followers because he is a freaking good communicator and has lot of slaves
working for him for free whm he has brainwhased.
H.H Aasaramji bapu.there are millions of followers of H.H Asaramji Bapu
the world over becuase some Indians will pray even if i lay a stone in the middle of the road.
Due to media getting ready to expose culprits like him we saw number of stories of people in india who were bigger than him lie Amarnath Shrine board.
I just can't wait to see what else brings for asaram.
He has made multi million dollars of empire by ruining peope life , just ask in vilage of any nearby ashram.

He has number of cases against him in Delhi High court.
He has manipulated number of people from wealthy families to eave their homes and live in his Ahmedbad ashram.
People who leave there family are made to pray to him as a god.
His son Narayan swami is a womaniser, who also now calls himself as god.
He spent 9 crores of rupees in his daughters marriage.
His links with a Jeweller are well publicized with income tax raids on jeweler in Delhi.
He has brainwashed lot of people and has grabbed their properties.
He is same like DIDI who got murdered Trivedi and he also speaks like Swadhyay parivar.
His inner circle says he said same thing like did you can kill anyone for the asaram bapu trust.
He will be next in the news soon, Becuase he has ruined numerous lifes, and has number of eople wrking for him as slaves and treating as god becuase they are hypntized by him.

Raghuvansh Purohit said...

Very good thread , and i don't see harmanjit is against religion or hindu. the messages are posted by visitors like us, and in fact harmanjit has been very open and has welcomed everyones post.

Regarding some follower of
Asaram bapu becoming fanatic here and try to tell us asaram is god for him, well that is his theory, FYI asaram bapus son narain sai also calls himself as god why don't you pray him as your god also. He is well known to number of females for his sexual acts and these females were harrased for opening their mouth to tell the truth. Both father and son runs a drama company where they have succesfully manipulated some innocent people to work for free and use them as slaves.

Both asaram bapu and his son should be in jail rather than to ruine people lifes.

Get the facts about asaram bapu on http://www.guruashram.com
after reading on the above website and me being a ex follower of asram i wanted to check the facts so
i got the copies of the court cases mentioned there and while was getting the copies from the court i was informed there are number of other cases also, so i got 6 more cases from the Tis hazari and patiala House court against Asaram bapu,

I wondred more and i asked my son in law to check in rajasthan as he lives there to check if there are any cases against asaram well delhi was repeated in Rajasthan too.

So being a hindu doesn't mean you became god, my whole family is hindu my all relatives are hindu my childrens and even grand childrens are hindu no none of us are god, but we are very religious and are ashamed that we were once associated with asaram bapu, and had wasted out time and money on this piece of garbage.

I hope god will forgive us as we had taken number of people to become his foollower and now they have taken his diksha and are his followers , and are wasting their life for him. We are hurt to see we helped asaram to ruin people life, but we were innocent follower devotees , we didn't knew his corrupt mind and we didn't knew he is criminal, and a fraud.


now we know asaram bapu is fraud and we hope to make this world better by letting one more person know that they must svae themselves from his scams.

Hemant said...

Hi Harmanjit and Ravi,

I am ashamed to see a hindu doing this. you call yourself hindu and write against Hindu Saints and Gurus. You should know not everything available on internet is right and you should have the understanding of what is right and what is wrong. Even our gods Shri Ram and Shri Krishna went to their respective Gurudev to get gyan and you are calling names to the Hindu Gurus.

There was an article in The Hindustan Times on Shri Krishna on the day of janamashtami and the writer wrote every crap she could write for Shri Krishna and said that he is not god. Do you believe what she wrote??

If anything of that sort would have had been written for Jesus or Mohammad, then you would have seen the results. There would have been disasterous situation across the world and the people would have called off for the writer's death. Satanic Versus, a novel written by Salman Rushdie. The novel caused much controversy upon publication in 1988, as many Muslims considered that it contained blasphemous references. India was the first country to ban the book. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of Iran, who was also a Shi’a Muslim scholar then issued a fatwa which called for the death of Rushdie and claimed that it was the duty of every Muslim to obey. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_(novel)). And in India, we hindus, inspite of praising and following our Saints , we are trying to malign our Saints and Gurus. Have you ever seen any hindu pandit/guru/shankaracharya calling off the killing of a person. Shame on you guys, i feel really sorry to know that u are hindus. If you are insulting a Hindu God/Saint and nothing like a fatwaa or something is being called off against you, then its their patience and kind heart. At least a Muslim is doing better than u hindus on his/her religious front.

Harmanjit singh, feeling really sorry for you that after being a Sardar and following Guru Nanak Dev ji, u are so ill minded and trying to defame hindu Saints. Here is a teaching by Sri Guru Nanak dev ji
"Sant Sataaye teeno jaaye, Tej, Bal aur Vansh, Aiddaa Aidaa kai gaya Ravan, Kaurav kedo Kansa."

Now if you have enough understanding go ahead and delete your comments and stop all such mischievous activities in ur future. World is not limited to whatever fits in ur mind.

Vivek said...

Asharam bapuji is everything for me. He is in my heart every second. He has given me the real knowledge. I have read messages by these three HARMANJIT, RAVI and RAGHUVANSH, and of course their words make me feel bad. Really bad but I have no hatered for them, and that is because of my GURU'S teaching. The knowledge he has given me teaches to respect everyone, even if it is your enemy, because God is in everyone. But most of us has forgotten our reality, but I need not to worry for them, one day after cycles of many birth and death, they will also come to this point, they will find their GURUS. I pray to GOD for these three souls to give them little knowledge.

GOD BLESS YOU!
OM NAMOH NARAYANA!
HARI OM!

Anonymous said...

Plato said three filter before uttering a word or making any comment 1)Is this going to benefit in good cause to somebody ?
2) Is it necessary to say So ?
3) Is it right time to deliver ?

My mom and few of my old Mais are followers of Bapuji. we have always this contradiction of thoughts with them and we even think sometime this Bapuji is trouble for our age, but mind in the end we Love him as he is the one in whom everybody has belief and a Belief does miracle my friends..So I will say Please do not be into mudslinging it comes back to us. Mangal mangal naam hari hari Om... :-)

Anil

Anonymous said...

Nice post, Fanatic followers of asaram trying to defend asaram. But i see the details on http://www.slavecult.com

Anonymous said...

I would only say :-
who are you to decide who is correct and who is wrong.
BE BETTER BEWARE OF CRITICISING ANY GURU OF ANY RELIGION.
BEWARE OF THE SUPREME POWER. BEWARE.
One more thing :- just take only a single step towards any good guru with a postive mindset , plus 5000% faith and notice the change from day 1.
hari om ji

guardiantext said...

to understand the truth and UNITY of all the great world teachers read www.greatpath.org after you read this site you will know the real from the twisted minded. very sincerely and with respect rl

Anonymous said...

I have also been a follower of enlightenment. It seems it's delusion. But actualfreedom seems to be a fraud or out of reach for normally wired brains.
And the normal human condition we know how crappy it is, pain, and constant war with others and oneself. Do you have a alternative to all this crap? I'm getting depressed here. It seems enlightenment still is the only thing worth to go for, despite it's delusion, you get some peace of mind.

N said...

harmanjit, discovered your blog by acceident (while searching for bad reports on Jaggi Vasudev) and very a nice post indeed. Like your courage to call even the most celebrated "spiritual" icons as deluded souls. Am an athiest, live in India and am finding ways to dissuade my 7-year old daughter from taking to religion while at the same time develop concern for her fellow human beings / lives on this planet. I don't understand spirituality and think that word has no real meaning. Keep up the good job.

Anonymous said...

my god (and I use that as an expression, don't get your panties all in a twist) , you can't be serious about that website you continually refer us to & its deluded spiritual teacher who denies he is spiritual .. in essense, no difference between him & any of the others. Talk about ego! Yikes, that guy takes the cake and keeps you searching, hoping, looking , practicing his 'method' ... his modus operandi seems to be to knock everyone off the mountain top so he can occupy that lofty spot for himself. & those under his spell can remain at base camp with occasional trips to the mountain top.

Another conjobber. another cult is born... cults get nowhere without money/power backing them & subsequent violence ... yours will be no different ... most likely it will die the way most cults die .. they fade away

enjoy your latest delusion to replace your previous delusions

Ramanamahayogibear said...

And we are supposed to consider the opinion of a man who blogs about mobile phones? dude, get a life, or has your firm bought that from you? Firstly, Gautama the Buddha is in a league unto to himself (and has been for the best part of 3500 years). Secondly, it's disturbing that you place the name Osho in the same sentence as someone such as Gautama (an indication of how veiled you are in ignorance). Thirdly, the inclusion of Goenka in your final list demonstrates your absolute cluelessness in this affair. May you find a suitable mobile phone and with it fulfillment in life. Seriously, dude, wake the f*** up.

Anonymous said...

How did come out of this categorisation of Gurus? It is because of all these categories of Gurus that in India culture and society is intact. You are correct in pointing out that Indians invest heavily in terms of time, body and thought in these activities and therefore the result is that the family institution which brings protection to the children and women are most intact. The average child of India is most protectred and has care of both the parents unlike in the west where children are unprotected and have only one aprent to care for them. I hope and wish that this system remains like that for all time to come.

Ketan said...

I hardly have any idea of teachings of Nanak, and a bit about Buddha. I am not sure if Buddha considered himself to be a God, but he seemed to be good at human psychology as an amateur pursuit.

Reading about Vivekananda I always used to wonder what was extraordinary about his ideas. They were hardly original, and hardly made any sense. I found them little more than verbal jugglery.

I was wondering about all these things and then reading some of the comments on this post brought me back to the 'real' world. ;)

Sandeep said...

Although i m not the follower of anyone but yes i foumd the Rajneesh Chandra Mohan a ultimae buddha ever born on this earth and that too in India..His discourse,his voice,his way of talking and the way he lived, i can say there is no one like him yet. No so-called religious people whether they r shankaracharyas, popes or mailviyas. No hindu reas gita or upanishad in sanskrit infact they dont read it.But People like Dr.Zakir hussain has got master degree in Geeta,Upanishad in sanskrit along with Koran. Now he is befooling the hindus in debating on God. Although he has no idea or experience of God. and hindus have no clue about that.. Why Dr. Zakir naik was silent when Osho Rajneesh called every so-called religious people for debate?

Anonymous said...

Zakir Naik hmmm......
If this dude understood the Gita Upanishads or Vedas he would know God in Hinduism cannot be described with words or limited by logic, quite like the koran which says Allah cannot be described or limited by an image. It is senseless for anyone to debate with words about matters of God and faith. Only the foolish and the ignorant waste their time in such nonsensical debates.

answertoyourquestion said...

>>It is only due to the spiritual gurus that Indians fail to give primary importance to life here on earth and instead waste their time on achieving a delusory great state (beyond life
and death) after they die.

haste. too much haste.
so you realised the truth and now are in a haste to englighten us on how we are all wrong in following the gurus.
you are angry and you are blaming it on the gurus.
people are so obsessed that india has been a slave to many countries and all this is because india is delusional. actually they are the ones who are delusional.
there are many many countries that had been under foreign rule for a long time even britain, spain which later became the biggest imperial powers. for centuries britain was under the romans and spain under the arabs.
before you make any conclusions you should take a second look at world history.
you are just one among crores who are jumping to conclusion without research. oh india is backward because india is deluded.

Colonel Zaysen said...

Sir,

I read all your posts on Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev & agree with you, that Sadhguru Jaggi vasudev, can be classified in the 2nd category of teachers and it is very easy to leave them as one becomes tired of their teachings and money making charade.

But you have classified A C bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada as a category 3 guru and genuine seekers myself included who were following him after reading his teachings, still follow his teachings after getting shattered experiences with Sadhguru. If you have read ACBSP's biography what ACBSP achieved in 12 years none has done it till now. So he deserves to be in the 1st category.

But I guess you come from a ultra modern back ground so u view him as such.But for traditionalists like me he and Swami Sivananda are the only Guru's to follow.

Anonymous said...

Kershnamurthi and Osho in Category I = incongruous.

Both were dubious characters completely inconsistent with the other names in Category I.

Neither had anything to say that had not already been said before. Dubious people with dubious followers.

Boala Lyme said...

If OSHO died of AIDS that was certainly NOT his fault.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed reading all your posts .
Regarding UG Krishnamurti : Initially I thought he as 3 category , but after digging I found him first category. I agree that he talks like frustrated guy. But after reading his earlier talks ( Biology of Enlightenment by mukunda roa) , I agree with his views. Personally he was who pulled me out of spiritual gold digging.His explanation of enlightenment was purely in biological terms. He claimed that what Ramana , Ramakrishna attained is not something transcendental, just that some random mutation happened to then where the lost sense of self - accordance with latest research in neuroscience. He never made any money or started any institution and promised enlightenment.I am writing long comment because UG Krishnamurti was my last stop. I dont read him any more or follow any other
Many people (including me) made snap judgement based on YouTube clips are some of his nihilistic statements.
UG is the medicine for all those who are deluded by enlightenment.

thanks
KV

Anonymous said...

Category I criteria according to you - saints who did not amass wealth but gave "new" messages to mankind.....

How then did Osho collect his fleet of Rolls Royce and diamonds and silk robes? He got kicked out of the US because of the huge fraud perpetrated by him and his disciples.
What was "new" in his message? It is as old as man and has been scuplted on the walls of ancient human setllements and even more elaborately in the Khajuraho temples.... There was nothing original about him not even his opulence or narcissism which he tried to pass of as enlightenment and people with a love of both those tendencies fell for him. After all birds of a feather flock together.....

He belongs to Category 4 - a fraud who got exposed and died. Most of the frauds like him have been lucky/smart enough to be able to get away with their crap...

Anonymous said...

Adi Shankara in Category 1 is a serious omission...
First one to summarise and teach the Vedantic philosophy so brilliantly....After him there is a huge gap until Ramana Maharishi and no one since then.....

kumar said...

Harmanjit
only 1 thing i wud like to say.
it is very difficult for a student of 5th standard to understand the concepts of 10th standard.

Understanding Osho and J.Krishnamutri requires a certain level of Intelligence and a very open and Unconditioned mind as well.

There is no need to criticize gurus like Asharam bapu. their followers need time to evolve. ITS ONLY AFTER EVOLUTION AND REFINEMENT IN HIS UNDERSTANDING, A PERSON COMES FINALLY AT THE FEET OF MASTERS LIKE OSHO AND J.K

they too will come 1 day to OSHO. but your criticism is not going to help.
EVERYTHING HAPPENS AT ITS RIGHT TIME AND ON ITS OWN ACCORD!!

Anonymous said...

The ultimate goal of spiritualism is to bring one closer to ones own self to understand what we are why we are what we are and what is our purpose in life. The answers to these questions help us to be ultimately peaceful in life which in fact is the goal(subconscious) of every human being. What helps us answer these questions in our given circumstances becomes important for us. Please note my using the word what and not who. In other words whatever words from whomsoever helps us to find ourselves and ultimately peace commands respect. No point disregarding the words and teachings of people that did not work in your circumstances. Tolerance and respect for the views of everybody is the first lesson of spirituality and if one has not learnt that then one has a long way to go. Wishing peace and happiness for all.

Rajeshri Chandavle said...

this is nonsense & stupidity!no one knows,or no onw can judge this Indian spiritual guru .since it is beyond our thinking .we people don't even understand meaning of 'silence'.meaning of absolute.this all mentioned saints are already enjoying this state of silent.abstaining from the worldly pleasures &,kam,krodh,lobh,moh

vashu sharma said...

I have read osho , I have read j krishnamurti , I have read Quran, bible,geeta , zen ,kabir ,Sufism ,and many more , what I found at last is whatever I was reading is an utter nonsense , thier are concepts , lectures and experience of the other peoples on which we all are debating here , everybody who is commenting is here thinks whatever he /she has understood is the only truth , this article this debate will lead us to no where , though it is good for entertainment , I will not advice or tell anybody about what I feel is truth , I would say " ............."